Has Anyone Added Through Spindle Coolant to an older Haas?

Zahnrad Kopf · Dec 4, 2017

Haas VF machining center.

As we have grown, we have taken in more and more jobs that would not only benefit from through spindle coolant, but some of them darn near require it. Growth has us looking into a new machine in the not so distant future, but I have to wonder just how hard it would be to add it to this machine, right now. Has anyone added through spindle coolant to a Haas? Is it economically feasible? It is mechanically feasible?

If you did this, what parts did you use? Where did you get them?

Thanks.

ducesrwld · Dec 6, 2017

the fact that if you ask haas they'll tell you it is only available new from the factory when built, not a field installable option. never heard of anyone doing it down the road, maybe give someone like chipblaster a call? what machine and vintage you working with?

Mud · Dec 6, 2017

Knowing just about nothing about Haases I'd suspect that if the spindle is threaded for a union you could get the correct union from Deublin. I found Deublin very helpful on the phone when I needed to replace an older model with something current.

Cycle1000 · Dec 6, 2017

I have one that I wanted to sell and have been told yes you can do it..no you cant do it..by two different HFO'S
So the first question I always get is, can you install it on a non TSC machine.
I think you can, just not with a "kit" from Haas
Gary

WILLEO6709 · Dec 6, 2017

IMHO, spring for the new machine with it over spending the buck on a machine you want to move down the road anyway. You won't get it back in resale and it won't be all the same for the new machine.....

beege · Dec 6, 2017

Have you looked at inducers?

Ox · Dec 6, 2017

I have a cpl of new (never used anyhow) Cat50 inducers that I might sell, but I doubt that you have a 50 taper Haas...

If you need to rig something up for a certain drill, and if you can take the time to physically be there at the time, there is a quick fix option.

If you are just looking to drill a big/deep hole, you can get a spade drill from Allied with a taper shank. That will have provissions for a coolant inducer ring to be installed directly onto it. The tool can go through the toolchanger, but you would need to hook and unhook the hose after and before toolchange. (just put an M0 to hold the phone).

Also - if you go with the inducer like Beege has shown, you can add a port to the bottom of the spindle that the holder plugs into for a torque stop as well as the coolant feed. This way you don't have to be there to hook up the hose.

Next step is a coolant pump. If you are wanting to run 3/16 drills, then you may want to pony up for a big pump. I don't know the pressure rating on an inducer, but I would be a bit skeptical of real high pressures? But you could buy the first cheap stack pump that come up on e-bay and hook it up.

If you have an extra M code - you're all set. If you don't, you could just tie it into one that is already used, like say you piggy back into the chip conveyor output if that is M code driven? You could always use a Manuel push button if need be, but you are back to the M0 for and aft again.

----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Speedie · Dec 6, 2017

Aint it grand...

'You cannot add that to an older machine'
'Just buy a new one'

Went down this road 10 years ago or so. They said they don't make an install kit. Welp... A new one is another $1500+ a month payment. Coolant ring costs you $30.00. Simple little aluminum ring with a hole and 2 snap rings for it to ride on. Very simple. But really they should allow these options to be installed on older machines.

Zahnrad Kopf · Dec 6, 2017

First, thank you all for the input.

Yes, some of it I am already aware of and looked at/looking at. I will come back and write more when I have more time. ( little busy at the moment ) But, I wanted to respond to a few things early on.

I don't trust Haas to know what is and is not realistic and possible. They have proven themselves wrong more times than I care to think about. The best and most readily available example is that when I WANTED to spend the money they flat out insisted that I could not install probing on this machine. It was, to quote them, "impossible".

Yet... here we are with a Renishaw work probe and tool setter on the machine, using it DAILY. And for a PITTANCE of what they charge, to boot.

So you'll understand if I don't exactly expect them to know one way or the other.

Yes, I have looked at inducers for drills. That's only 30% of the battle. Hence the desire to go through spindle.

More later.

Thanks, Gentlemen. Appreciate the input and time.

Mud · Dec 6, 2017

I'd think it simpler than adding a probe, You need a union, a pump, a solenoid valve, a starter for the pump motor, an M code output in the control to operate the valve and starter, and some wiring and hoses.

The union choices can be overwhelming. Ordering whatever Haas specs for that machine is probably a simple choice. I'm familiar with Dueblin - they have popoff style unions that can run indefinitely without coolant, and standard type that need fluid for lubrication, larger orifices for lower pressure with higher flow, smaller orifices for higher pressure but less flow. Start with finding out what thread is in your drawbar, RH, LH, metric, inch and go from there. Once you know what you need you might find a correct union on ebay.

Idev Listing | Deublin Company

Maybe one of these -
UNION POP-OFF M16X1.5LH 18MM | Deublin Company
UNION POP-OFF M16X1.5LH 18MM | Deublin Company

I have a couple spare chipblasters I should sell if you're interested in shipping one, we're happy so far w/120 psi on our TSC and haven't seen a need yet to install one on this machine. On that subject, you can get Grundfos type pumps w/ 120+ PSI, they don't need all the space and electric of a high pressure rig.

Edit - Here's a guy selling a Deublin union at a big premium, because it's still half the price of the Haas part.
COOLANT ROTARY UNION as Compared to Haas(R) PN# 93-982 & 93-1158 | eBay

MikeMosh · Dec 21, 2021

How did it end?

Zahnrad Kopf said:
First, thank you all for the input.

Yes, some of it I am already aware of and looked at/looking at. I will come back and write more when I have more time. ( little busy at the moment ) But, I wanted to respond to a few things early on.

I don't trust Haas to know what is and is not realistic and possible. They have proven themselves wrong more times than I care to think about. The best and most readily available example is that when I WANTED to spend the money they flat out insisted that I could not install probing on this machine. It was, to quote them, "impossible".

Yet... here we are with a Renishaw work probe and tool setter on the machine, using it DAILY. And for a PITTANCE of what they charge, to boot.

So you'll understand if I don't exactly expect them to know one way or the other.

Yes, I have looked at inducers for drills. That's only 30% of the battle. Hence the desire to go through spindle.

More later.

Thanks, Gentlemen. Appreciate the input and time.

How did this end? Looking to add TSP to a '98 VF-4...

AJ H · Dec 21, 2021

MikeMosh said:
How did this end? Looking to add TSP to a '98 VF-4...

Haas won't add it to a machine that wasn't pre-plumbed for it.

Kawgomoo · Aug 22, 2023

since hfo's are totally full of shit and absolutely the worst part of owning a haas...yes you can field install TSC 300psi on damn near any machine. https://www.haascnc.com/service/tro...ugh-spindle-coolant---field-install-kits.html

Donkey Hotey · Aug 22, 2023

Kawgomoo said:
since hfo's are totally full of shit and absolutely the worst part of owning a haas...yes you can field install TSC 300psi on damn near any machine. https://www.haascnc.com/service/tro...ugh-spindle-coolant---field-install-kits.html

I appreciate your can-do attitude but, it says this right at the top of the page you linked:

"CHC machines may only field install TSC if they were built with the Consolidated Air Lube Manifold (CALM)"

You had to buy the machine with the "TSC-Ready" option.

cpifer3 · Aug 22, 2023

Not sure how your spindle is set up, but we had thru coolant installed on one of our machines. One detail that got overlooked was the fact that the spindle cartridge was not drilled for air purge. Spindle bearings went out in about a year. Sent the spindle out ,had it re-built and drilled for air purge. Its been good since.

Kawgomoo · Aug 22, 2023

Donkey Hotey said:
I appreciate your can-do attitude but, it says this right at the top of the page you linked:

"CHC machines may only field install TSC if they were built with the Consolidated Air Lube Manifold (CALM)"

You had to buy the machine with the "TSC-Ready" option.

lmao...absolutely not. i dont think you completely understand what the CALM is, its the air manifold in the side cabinet. Its not actually a necessity for making it all work. Its just needed to be plug n play with what haas puts in the bag. but tell me again how it "cant be done". Here are the instructions FROM HAAS for NOT TSC READY machines. Why are people such quitters?

Through Spindle Coolant - Field Install - Not TSC Ready - NGC

www.haascnc.com

Donkey Hotey · Aug 22, 2023

Kawgomoo said:
Why are people such quitters?

Hey, lets not get carried away here.

I was going to install a Servo Bar 300 on my Tool Room Lathe, even though I was told it wouldn't work. I also have a Renishaw presetter arm for the same machine. If the plugs and hardware are there...

It's just that the older spindle heads were constructed completely differently. I don't know when the inline spindle came out but, my machine is belt drive with a gearbox. The top of the drawbar is out in the open with a piston pushing down from above. Any incorporation of TSC would have to happen in a totally different location and manner than what Haas sells.

Machinist Joe · Aug 22, 2023

It can be done, A shop I was at had it done by a none Haas repair guy. The hard part is getting all the parts from Haas. They didn't want to sell them to use, we had to buy them using a S/N from a mill that already had it....
They don't use unions. the drawbar on coolant thru has a carbide face, when it is on the piston is pressed down with low air pressure to seal.

CarbideBob · Aug 22, 2023

Is though coolant that great or a just band-aid for bad tip geometry and chip evacuation/flute design?
I'm sure many will think me nuts for asking.
For sure in a standard gun drill one has no options for the transport of the cut material.
At what L/D is this good or a must for you?

mhajicek · Aug 22, 2023

CarbideBob said:
Is though coolant that great or a just band-aid for bad tip geometry and chip evacuation/flute design?
I'm sure many will think me nuts for asking.
For sure in a standard gun drill one has no options for the transport of the cut material.
At what L/D is this good or a must for you?

It's very helpful for drilling in stainless and Ti, especially if you're going deep. You can go at it significantly more aggressively and never peck. It's also great for blasting chips out of pockets.

Now how do I get 1000PSI TSC on a 50,000RPM spindle?

Has Anyone Added Through Spindle Coolant to an older Haas?

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