helical rise too steep error on fadal with 88hs

Hey guys, its me again, so i just started to run a part i coded with solidCAM i3d machinig, everything was going great until i got an error and the machine stopped.

i got the HELICAL RISE TOO STEEP.

the part of the code is like this.

N11552 G01 Y-4.0484 F121.
N11554 Y-3.9451
N11556 Y-3.8648
N11558 Y-3.836
N11560 G03 X9.3109 Y-3.785 Z-0.305 I-0.0857 J0.
N11562 G01 X8.8064 Y-4.4669 F300. this feedrate was F500. but i changed it and still got the same error.
N11564 G03 X8.8693 Y-4.6033 Z-0.308 I0.0689 J-0.051 F52.
N11566 G02 X8.9024 Y-4.6075 I-0.0221 J-0.3117 F121.
N11568 G01 X8.9053 Y-4.608
N11570 G02 X8.9632 Y-4.6243 I-0.0552 J-0.3076
N11572 G01 X8.9639 Y-4.6245 F56.
N11574 X8.982 Y-4.6315 F39.
N11576 G03 X9.0215 Y-4.6426 I0.0785 J0.2042 F41.
N11578 G01 X9.024 Y-4.643
N11580 G03 X9.1044 Y-4.6448 I0.0471 J0.307
N11582 X9.1259 Y-4.6418 I-0.0193 J0.2179 F52.
N11584 G01 X9.1425 Y-4.6387 F47.
N11586 G03 X9.2518 Y-4.6027 I-0.1432 J0.6197
N11588 X9.3196 Y-4.5705 I-0.4269 J0.9848 F52.
N11590 X9.3599 Y-4.548 I-0.2853 J0.5576 F44.
N11592 X9.386 Y-4.5294 I-0.1131 J0.1872
N11594 X9.4289 Y-4.4819 I-0.1393 J0.1687 F36.
N11596 X9.4561 Y-4.424 I-0.1821 J0.1212 F49.
N11598 X9.4655 Y-4.3607 I-0.2094 J0.0633 F64.
N11600 G01 Y-4.3554 F83.
N11602 Y-4.2532
N11604 Y-4.1458 F82.
N11606 Y-4.1079 F121.
N11608 G03 X9.3155 Y-4.0513 Z-0.305 I-0.0857 J0.
N11610 G01 X8.9309 Y-4.4881 F300.
N11612 G03 X8.964 Y-4.6245 Z-0.308 I0.0643 J-0.0566 F52.
N11614 G01 X8.9672 Y-4.6258 F121.
N11616 X8.9701 Y-4.627
N11618 G02 X9.0079 Y-4.6453 I-0.1171 J-0.2897
N11620 X9.0322 Y-4.6607 I-0.1549 J-0.2714
N11622 G01 X9.0352 Y-4.6628
N11624 G02 X9.0506 Y-4.6743 I-0.1792 J-0.256 F55.
N11626 G03 X9.062 Y-4.6828 I0.1306 J0.1642 F41.
N11628 G01 X9.0692 Y-4.6877
N11630 G03 X9.0971 Y-4.704 I0.1192 J0.1727 F44.
N11632 X9.1671 Y-4.7265 I0.1329 J0.2934
N11634 X9.1853 Y-4.7296 I0.0445 J0.2051
N11636 X9.2811 Y-4.7309 I0.0532 J0.3878
N11638 X9.3142 Y-4.7241 I-0.0254 J0.2083 F52.
N11640 X9.3749 Y-4.6952 I-0.0585 J0.2015 F36.
N11642 X9.4235 Y-4.6486 I-0.1193 J0.1726 F33.
N11644 X9.4547 Y-4.589 I-0.1678 J0.126 F35.
N11646 X9.4655 Y-4.5226 I-0.1991 J0.0664 F105.
N11648 G01 Y-4.4409 F121.
N11650 Y-4.3624
N11652 G03 X9.3229 Y-4.2983 Z-0.305 I-0.0857 J0.
N11654 G01 X9.0471 Y-4.5432 F300.
N11656 G03 X9.0506 Y-4.6743 Z-0.308 I0.0569 J-0.0641 F52.
N11658 G02 X9.0769 Y-4.6978 I-0.1946 J-0.2445 F121.
N11660 G01 X9.0999 Y-4.7208 F91.
N11662 X9.1171 Y-4.7379 F61.
N11664 X9.1179 Y-4.7388 F121.
N11666 G02 X9.1355 Y-4.758 I-0.2218 J-0.2202 F80.
N11668 G01 X9.1374 Y-4.7601 F42.
N11670 X9.1536 Y-4.7769 F44.
N11672 G03 X9.1581 Y-4.7809 I0.0301 J0.0291 F41.
N11674 G01 X9.1755 Y-4.7944
N11676 X9.1797 Y-4.7973
N11678 G03 X9.2465 Y-4.8266 I0.128 J0.2015
N11680 X9.3228 Y-4.8334 I0.0605 J0.2454
N11682 G01 X9.3456 Y-4.8311
N11684 X9.3499 Y-4.8304
N11686 X9.3728 Y-4.8256
N11688 G03 X9.4402 Y-4.7988 I-0.0631 J0.2571 F52.
N11690 X9.4531 Y-4.788 I-0.0198 J0.0369 F19.
N11692 X9.4635 Y-4.7683 I-0.0491 J0.0384 F13.
N11694 X9.4655 Y-4.7554 I-0.0398 J0.0129 F94.
N11696 G01 Y-4.7369 F121.
N11698 Y-4.6428
N11700 Y-4.5432
N11702 Y-4.5242




any ideas on whats causing it?

I don't know Fadal, but presumably it's block 12054 that's the problem, rather than the one you've highlighted?

you are right! i had no idea what that meant but went ahead and erased thos helical move lines and the program kept going withouth errors until i got hte same error again on a similar move, im testing it now to see if it will work. is there a way to prevent those steep helix in solidcam?

nope, i still get hte same error om every helyx move.

dammit. solidcam sucks, i need a new cam software

No, because of my experience with that control I say Fadal sucks. I found it to be an irritating, buggy, POS!!!

Just my 2 cents, your opinion may differ.

DavidScott said:

No, because of my experience with that control I say Fadal sucks. I found it to be an irritating, buggy, POS!!!

Just my 2 cents, your opinion may differ.

Click to expand...

i guess you're right, i just need to find the right way to program the code so i don't get that error.

Make your entry helical move a larger radius or change to a ramp entry. Your practically plunging in Z as programed.

in2glamisgirl said:

Make your entry helical move a larger radius or change to a ramp entry. Your practically plunging in Z as programed.

Click to expand...

Taking the following blocks as an example, where the OP states the error occurred first, the Z move is only 0.003". The circular move is through 122.490deg, giving a helix angle of 1.87167deg. I would not have thought that was too great a rate of change. Typically, that ramp angle in helical milling is considered conservative.

N11562 G01 X8.8064 Y-4.4669 F300. this feedrate was F500.
N11564 G03 X8.8693 Y-4.6033 Z-0.308 I0.0689 J-0.051 F52.

Regards,

Bill

angelw said:

Taking the following blocks as an example, where the OP states the error occurred first, the Z move is only 0.003". The circular move is through 122.490deg, giving a helix angle of 1.87167deg. I would not have thought that was too great a rate of change. Typically, that ramp angle in helical milling is considered conservative.

N11562 G01 X8.8064 Y-4.4669 F300. this feedrate was F500.
N11564 G03 X8.8693 Y-4.6033 Z-0.308 I0.0689 J-0.051 F52.

Regards,

Bill

Click to expand...

Look at the photo. The line he pointed out is not the line the error occurred on (N=12054).

Atomkinder said:

Look at the photo. The line he pointed out is not the line the error occurred on (N=12054).

Click to expand...

Yes, I see that now. It would be an advantage if the OP would Post the blocks surrounding N12054.

As the comment in Post #8 "Your practically plunging in Z as programed" was made with the benefit of only the code Posted by the OP in Post #1, I assumed the Z moves within that code listing were being referred to. In all of that code, Z only changes by a maximum of 0.003"

Regards,

Bill

Jack, we have the same problem on Fadals when using Volumill. What we do is take out the floor clearance (in CAM dialog box) so that it is not lifting or helixing back into the actual tool path. So far, this has solved our issues, on aluminum anyway.
The error itself is a Fadal issue though, not the CAM. The control cannot do a helix that tight and fast......I can post the exact same part to our Haas and it performs just peachy.

Chobyn said:

Jack, we have the same problem on Fadals when using Volumill. What we do is take out the floor clearance (in CAM dialog box) so that it is not lifting or helixing back into the actual tool path. So far, this has solved our issues, on aluminum anyway.
The error itself is a Fadal issue though, not the CAM. The control cannot do a helix that tight and fast......I can post the exact same part to our Haas and it performs just peachy.

Click to expand...

.
many cnc machines do not follow programmed path very well doing tight arcs at high speeds. holding tolerances is harder. perhaps the machine has a parameter refusing high speed tight arcs it cannot do very well at following path precisely............ just cause a machine runs a programmed path does not mean it followed the path precisely. i have had many bores machine different sizes just by altering feed rate slower usually more precise.

I think most of us are aware of that......what I was referring to was getting the exact same error with a different dynamic roughing software and how we worked around it on this same control, hoping that this could point Jack in the right direction.

I though I would add this to help searches for this error in the future.

From the Fadal manual:
"Helical rise too steep, N******
The radius of the circle and the helical rise are radically different in length (usually the rise is much longer in comparison to the radius).
Also, dependent on the programmed federate, the control may or may not be able to handle the situation. Reducing the feed rate in the program usually helps."

I would guess you might have a very high entry feed that the control does not think the iron can handle. I see a lot of F300. in your program that is too fast on a Fadal! (unless you are programing metric?)
Helical entry moves are nice but simple ramp entry's will work better at high feed rates on your machine.

I am not 100% certain on i3D, but it the F300. is most likely a respositioning move from within the roughing cycle. Notice that the F300. feedrates are .003 higher in Z location than his other cutting moves.

in2glamisgirl said:

I though I would add this to help searches for this error in the future.

From the Fadal manual:
"Helical rise too steep, N******
The radius of the circle and the helical rise are radically different in length (usually the rise is much longer in comparison to the radius).

Click to expand...

In my Post #9 I stated that the helix angle for the sample helical moves listed by the OP was 1.87167deg. It is in fact only 0.936087deg; I'd used radius instead of diameter in calculations. The rise is only 0.10266 of the radius; very conservative. It would be an advantage for the OP to list the code where the error actually occurred so the Forum could see what sort of rise to radius ratio might cause this error.

Regards,

Bill

Sorry it took me so long to post!

here is the part of the code! i was going to attach the file but i dont know how.


N12026 G01 Y-2.6699 F85.
N12028 Y-2.6487 F77.
N12030 Y-2.6261 F60.
N12032 Y-2.612 F22.
N12034 G03 X9.461 Y-2.5887 I-0.0625 J0. F23.
N12036 X9.4514 Y-2.5725 I-0.058 J-0.0233 F16.
N12038 X9.4375 Y-2.5599 I-0.0484 J-0.0395
N12040 X9.4203 Y-2.5519 I-0.0345 J-0.0521 F18.
N12042 X9.403 Y-2.5495 I-0.0173 J-0.0601 F121.
N12044 G01 X9.3451
N12046 X9.3443
N12048 G03 X9.3358 Y-2.5499 Z-0.3001 I0. J-0.0857
N12050 X9.3275 Y-2.5511 Z-0.2767 I0.0084 J-0.0853
N12052 X9.3194 Y-2.5532 Z-0.2387 I0.0167 J-0.084
N12054 X9.3114 Y-2.556 Z-0.1875 I0.0249 J-0.082
N12056 X9.3038 Y-2.5596 Z-0.1363 I0.0328 J-0.0792
N12058 X9.2966 Y-2.564 Z-0.0983 I0.0404 J-0.0756
N12060 X9.2899 Y-2.569 Z-0.0749 I0.0476 J-0.0712
N12062 X9.2837 Y-2.5746 Z-0.067 I0.0544 J-0.0662
N12064 G01 X9.2742 Y-2.5841 F300.
N12066 X8.5424 Y-3.0898
N12068 X8.5405 Y-3.0917
N12070 X8.5387 Y-3.0969
N12072 X8.5376 Y-3.1088

Aaaaannnnndddd sorry for the photo for ants. here is the human version

Wow, that Fadal must be stuttering a lot with all the feedrate changes. No way can it accelerate like that, helical issues aside. I'd try limiting your speed first and see if it helps (especially with the 121ipm in that move).

Also, is this a helical ramp out of the part? Trying to envision what's going on with the tool (looks like a ballnose or bullnose cutter).