Help me find the right VMC for are needs.

So after much research and thought the bosses are looking at buying a Haas TM -2p. Who am I kidding they looked at two machines and the Haas was "way cheaper"* The Haas actually looks like a nice machine. But I don’t think it is right for what we need it to do. So what I need it to do is hold a cylinder with a max of 7" dia x 19" in a 4th axis rotary with tailstock. Then hard mill with cutters of mostly 1/64 to 1/32" Will be slotting and pocketing but with a lot of curves and radius. Don't need to make more then one or two parts a day. Anyone have any recommendations? I am looking at other machines but some companies I swear do not want to sell machines. One wanted my whole life story just to get machine spec's much less a price.

I don't think that machine is going to be rigid enough to make it enjoyable to use. What sort of tolerances are you trying to hold? For hard milling I'd steer clear of Haas, although it'll still get the job done.

Probably the worst used live tool lathe with a tailstock out there is going to hold a hardened tube more rigidly then a TM-2 with a rotary.
Not sure if turning capability would be a benefit. Is y axis needed for pocketing or slotting? Big price bump to get a Y axis lathe.

I think he's talking mill. I also wouldn't consider Haas for hard milling, but if your largest cutter is going to be 1/32 diameter, then you'll be fine with Haas. That's pretty darned small of a cutter.

Atomkinder said:

I don't think that machine is going to be rigid enough to make it enjoyable to use. What sort of tolerances are you trying to hold? For hard milling I'd steer clear of Haas, although it'll still get the job done.

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Dave K said:

I think he's talking mill. I also wouldn't consider Haas for hard milling, but if your largest cutter is going to be 1/32 diameter, then you'll be fine with Haas. That's pretty darned small of a cutter.

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Used to hard mill with a Haas VF3 daily. Not sure about the machine youa re talking about however, AND I can't compare numbers to someone hard milling with a Mats or Mazak. Our VF3 did what we needed, used an MA Ford endmill and that thing took a beating, no complaints from here.

6061Mike said:

Used to hard mill with a Haas VF3 daily. Not sure about the machine youa re talking about however, AND I can't compare numbers to someone hard milling with a Mats or Mazak. Our VF3 did what we needed, used an MA Ford endmill and that thing took a beating, no complaints from here.

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I was in no way saying Haas can't do the job, just for the record. I'm a fan of Haas machines, not a basher. It's just that if the O.P. were to be doing some heavy duty milling of hardened material, I'd choose something with box ways instead of linear guides. That was my basic point, but like I said of the largest mill this will see is 1/32 diameter, then that cutter isn't going to know the difference.

for that small of cutters you need to be looking at the max rpm. runout is the killer of cutters, especially small ones. Sometimes its ok to get the cheapest machine that will do the job, but I'd have them set it up and cut a trial of at least 20 pieces ( 1 set of cutters). You may be better off with something like an okuma m560 genos...... or at least a vf2.....
at max rpm if you are running coolant that TM is likely to make quite a mess.

WILLEO6709 said:

for that small of cutters you need to be looking at the max rpm. runout is the killer of cutters, especially small ones. Sometimes its ok to get the cheapest machine that will do the job, but I'd have them set it up and cut a trial of at least 20 pieces ( 1 set of cutters). You may be better off with something like an okuma m560 genos...... or at least a vf2.....
at max rpm if you are running coolant that TM is likely to make quite a mess.

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I have run a TM1 haas and anything over 1500rpm the coolant slings everyFckinWhere! Sucks! Also, ours has 4000 max rpm: not good for small cutters.

Thinking the new TM's have an enclosure.(?)

I might be tempted to the TM route for the cutter size being mentioned. Use the cost savings on some air powered speeder heads, FTW!

6061Mike said:

Used to hard mill with a Haas VF3 daily. Not sure about the machine youa re talking about however, AND I can't compare numbers to someone hard milling with a Mats or Mazak. Our VF3 did what we needed, used an MA Ford endmill and that thing took a beating, no complaints from here.

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Even the VF-3 is a world above a TM-2P. I didn't say it couldn't do it, I said it would suck. Especially with that 6k max RPM. For cutters that small I'd want 10k bare minimum.

WILLEO6709 said:

for that small of cutters you need to be looking at the max rpm. runout is the killer of cutters, especially small ones. Sometimes its ok to get the cheapest machine that will do the job, but I'd have them set it up and cut a trial of at least 20 pieces ( 1 set of cutters). You may be better off with something like an okuma m560 genos...... or at least a vf2.....
at max rpm if you are running coolant that TM is likely to make quite a mess.

Click to expand...

mkd said:

Thinking the new TM's have an enclosure.(?)

I might be tempted to the TM route for the cutter size being mentioned. Use the cost savings on some air powered speeder heads, FTW!

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That's my main concern. The TM -2p only has 6000 rpm way under recommendations for cutters this size. If we have to buy $k to $$k in speeders is there a mill with a faster spindle that we could have gotten away with in that new total price range? Is asking for a test run normal? To the bosses credit they did ask for that but are apparently getting resistance from the dealer.

I didn't even think of the rpm and runout. I concur with the rest, that should be a high priority.

I think you might find some value in plugging your material, cutter and operation parameters into some speed/feed calculators and getting an idea of what different machines will do.

Just for the heck of it, I fired up HSM Advisor and selected D2 tool steel at 35-40RC (sorta hard, I guess?) and started to go worst case scenario of full width slotting. For a 4 flute 1/32" tool, HSM Advisor is telling me that the optimal cut is .0066" deep and an uncoated tool wants 9,350rpm and 3 inches a minute. Coat that tool in nACo (Melin makes nice end mills and coats them with such), you can more than double the cut to 22,250rpm and 7.12ipm. That's a massive difference in speed. No idea what you're doing to these 7"x19" cylinders, but depending on the sort of operations involved, these sort of cut speeds could easily be the difference between doing 1 or 2 jobs per day!

Any way it goes, I don't see a Haas toolroom mill being optimal out of the box. BUT- you could also fit one with an air driven spindle. Good ones are not inexpensive, but the alternative would be to step up to something with a 20k+ RPM spindle (like a Brother Speedio S1000 with the 27k spindle option... I don't think either the Robodrill or the DMG MillTap with the 24k standard spindle can fit a 19" long workpiece with the rotary+tailstock).

yup for small cutters you need rpms and that ain't a haas tm of any flavor