Thread: Help needed with Bridgeport CNC Perversion

I have a Bridgeport that was retrofitted with an InControl CAD/CAM system by MicroMotion. It was a pretty spiffy setup when it was working properly with 2 & 3-D graphics, command list and graphical programming, canned cycles and so on, but, it used its own programming that is unlike anything else out there.
If I'm going to take the time to learn a system I'd like it to be one that I can use down the road on other CNC machines.
I would like to replace the computer end of the system with something up to date with other software that is more user friendly with available support. (plus you Guys and Gal)
Everything on the machine itself is in excellent condition, motor drives, ballscrews, etc. But they have no tags or labels telling me their make, type, speed etc.
I don't no the difference between a stepper or a servo motor. Perhaps one of you can tell by the pictures.
Sooooooooooo, what would I need as far as a computer that would talk to my Bridgeport, and do I need to buy the CAD and CAM separately or can I get everything in a nice plug & play package?




Thanks,
Jim

Jim.
“Perhaps one of you can tell by the pictures.”
On your last Pic bp22. The motor has provision for brushes. So I’m fairly confident that would be a DC Servo motor. The box / sheet-metal work on the end, looks after market. Best guess, there’s an offset belt drive to an encoder, to get that configuration. Your quill motor has the same sheet metal work. Regards Phil.

Agree - transformer and big blue cap along with a bridge rectifier, which will be one of the quite small componetnts. The usual stuff to make DC. Servo amps (similar to Geckos) are there somewhere.
With enough study, you could figure this all out, see where you were, and make changes needed to run the thing with PC based system such as Mach 2/3. Also may be less complicated to start over, buiding new controller from scratch to suit existing motors.

John

Agree servos.
Is there another panel somehwere? There should be some type of servo drive unit wired to the servos.
Should be pretty easy to put that system on a conventional PC control (mach2, emc, etc)

What if the servo drivers are located at the ends of the motors?
Next step is to find out what really is on the ends of the motors, in terms of encoders etc.
Since you already have servo motors, and drivers that match, and you are satisfied with the performance, just a case of finding out how they are driven, either step and direction, or a servo/motion card in the computer. If it is step and directon, you are almost good to go with Mach3. If a servo control card in the computer, woith +-10volts to the current dribvers, you might be able to use that. Thirdly, you could use Gecko drivers to use the encoder outputs to drive the motors, along with Mach3, but that will be the most $ if you don't need to replace drivers you already have.
Pete

Thanks Guys,
Here's a little more information.
This "is a PC Based, complete - end to end, fully integrated CAD-CAM-CNC system."
And it consists of electronic servo control hardware plus all computers and software necessary to operate the system. Ah ha, you guys are right, it is a servo motor. I didn't read far enough. :rolleyes:

The Computer requirements are:
25 MHz (or faster) 386 PC
color VGA
1 Meg RAM
2 3 1/2 floppy disk drives
Logitech Serial Mouse or TrackBall
MicroMotion interface board
MS DOS 5.1
HardDisk is optional but recommended.

I took some pictures of the computer.
There are three plugs that connect from to the long black board (servo motion card? ) in the PC to the mill.
Tomorrow I will open one of the sheet metal boxes and see what's what.
Thanks again,
Jim

There are CAD/CAM programs that are integrated, and there are ones that just make drawings (CAD), and ones that just make G-Code (CAM). Perhaps if you told us what kind of parts you want to use the machine for, we could be more helpful in suggesting a CAD/CAM system to use?

As for the control itself, that will be a separate item from the CAD/CAM system - perhaps on a separate computer, as well (I like to keep the control CPU dedicated).

In the worst case, you will have to replace the motors and fit new encoders - but, if you are lucky, the existing motors and encoders can be used. Obviously, the 386 PC goes by-by - but I wouldn't retain the servo drives either; I would go with an integrated system (such as a GeckoDrive G320 or Rutex R2010).

Good Evening,
I opened up the box for the X drive, and this is what I found.
John, I guess the two blue cylinders are the caps you were referring to.
All the wires seem to go thru the gray sealant that holds everything to the sheet metal.
I hope I don't have to go into that. But guess that its the servo drive unit that damonfg mentions. There is a plug connecting the wired mess to the black, half round box on the servo motor.

Pete, I don't no what a step and direction set up looks like, but isn't the long black board in the bottom PC picture a servo/motion card? If not, can you tell me what it is so I no the proper terminology for future reference.







Mr. hammerhead74000,
I would like to be able to machine parts such as motorcycle valve and ignition covers, some aluminum rifle receivers and others that will require roughing and contour finishing. I would like to be able to engrave contoured surfaces and be able to download files from other sources and have my machine understand them so I can possibly take in some overflow work from local shops.
I'm looking for a system that is pretty user friendly that I can just swap one PC for the other.(hopefully)
I don't have a problem with a separate control CPU being you don't like my "386 PC"
Thanks everyone, for all your help.
Jim

That's a pretty interesting setup. If I am looking at it correctly, the PC card does the motion control, but the power transistors are in the end cap of the motor (black units w/ silver tabs, top pic) and also the encoder is in there too (bot pic)

Can you read the part numbers off the power transistors? That would help define the drive current/voltage.

I don't know if I'd even attempt to reuse those drives. Possibly a good match for a gecko using the existing encoder.

damonfg,
Congrats on your 1000 post. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I'm afraid that the part your looking for the part # for is sealed to the aluminum box. :mad:
I could try and pry the back off the box, but would hate to break something.
The encoder has listed:
1 GND
2 index
3 ch A
4 4+5v
5 ch B
If that helps at all.
Jim

woohoo! Titanium!

Anyway the p/ns shouls be printed on the black plastic just below those hex nuts.

The encoder looks like a stock item from USdigital. No problems there, easily reusable.

have you tried the people that made the first unit? That would help a bunch on the new interface because they would be able to tell you how to hook up the new one.If they are still around they have prob'ly made the kind of improvements you seek?

Unlike some ( :mad: ) manufacturers, whoever made your encoders was kind enough to include the requisite pinout info on them! So, as damonmfg said - easy to reuse.

Next step: what is the power supply voltage?

In the photos first posted, there is one of a transformer, a cap, and a bridge rectifier in a cabinet. What needs to be checked is the voltage across the cap (this will determine if you can use Geckodrive G320s or if you need to go to a Rutex system to handle an extra-high-voltage power supply). Geckos can only handle 80VDC on the power supply input, MAX, but Rutex drives can be had in up to 200VDC, 40A versions (yeah - that's just over 10HP, for a servo drive! ).

damonf,
No good. Everything under the hex nuts is (are) under cement.

wippin'boy,
Couldn't find hide nor hair of them.

hammerhead74000,
The only thing on the capacitor is Spraque Powerlytic 36 DY.
Does that tell us what we want to no?

No - you need to measure the voltage across it's terminals when powered up.

OK, I'll get a meter and check it tomorrow.
Thanks

Got it. 75 volts across the capacitor. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Where do I go from here?
Jim

OK. That will work with a Geckodrive - but it's getting up there, so it'll need a braking resistor setup (Gecko's have a 80VDC max rating, and when the motor is slowing down, it acts like a generator, which increases the power supply voltage - if you don't have a braking resistor to dissipate off the excess voltage, you can end up frying the Gecko - and fried Gecko is not very tasty).


My favorite setup is a Mini-ITX motherboard, mounted in an industrial-type electrical enclosure along with the other components (Geckos, power supplies, VFD, relay cards, breakout card).

I would suggest removing the conduit going to the motors, and in the hole (which may require enlargement with a step-drill) installing a AMP C16-1 series 7-pin connector (these are available from DigiKey, part numbers 361-1034-ND, 361-1037-ND, 361-1040-ND, and 361-1041-ND). As the old controller card is glued in place, I would just snip the leads going to it, and ignore it. I would wire the new connectors like this:

1) Motor +
2) Motor -
3) +5V
4) Ground
5) CH A
6) CH B
7) Index

...with the male connector on the motor, and the female connector on the control enclosure.

In the photos, there appears to be a wiring harness attached to the encoder that could be re-used - just snip it from the old potted controller, and solder it to the new 7-pin connector.

Next, you need to decide where you are going to put all the parts. If it were my machine, I would remove all the parts (except the motor mounts and quill ballscrew - as they work just fine, and there's no need to disassemble them), keeping the transformer, bridge rectifier, cap, and motors with encoders. I would get a new (well, different) enclosure, probably in the 16x20 range, with a usable depth of at least 8 in (but, measure your transformer and stuff to be sure this is adequate room).

On the bench, I would assemble into the (pre-drilled) enclosure these parts:

The main power transformer, bridge rectifier, and cap. (mounted down on the bottom section of the enclosure)
3 ea. Geckodrive G320 servo controllers, with heatsinks. (upper left of the enclosure)
A CNC4PC parallel port breakout board. (near the geckos)
A relay card if you want to control coolant, or have a single-phase spindle motor. (also near the geckos)
An ATX PC power supply (mounted across from the main transformer. Note that you may want to make up a few brackets for this, as these are designed to fit into a standard ATX PC enclosure, and thusly have the screw holes on the side of the power supply's enclosure, instead of the bottom like all the other parts do).
A Mini-ITX motherboard (I usually mount this on the upper part of the door of the enclosure, towards the hinges).

If you have a 3-phase spindle motor, I would put a VFD in the upper right section of the enclosure.

For a console, I would use a standard PC monitor (LCD or CRT) mounted on a monitor arm, which is bolted to the side of the mill. Attached to the monitor arm would be a keyboard tray, with a rubberized keyboard and a trackball in it.


This is my master list of CNC-conversion resource links:

http://www.halted.com/
http://www.herbach.com/
http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.alltronics.com/
http://www.surplussales.com/
http://www.candhsales.com/
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/
http://www.bgmicro.com/
http://www.sciplus.com/
http://www.weirdstuff.com/
http://www.surpluscenter.com/
http://www.resunltd4u.com/
http://www.eio.com/
http://www.mpja.com/
http://www.americanlabs.com/
http://www.surplusshed.com/
http://www.meci.com/

http://www.industrialhobbies.com/

http://www.dakeng.com/
http://www.artofcnc.ca/
http://www.cnczeus.com/

http://www.geckodrive.com/
http://www.larkencnc.com/
http://www.rutex.com
http://www.xylotex.com/

http://www.usdigital.com/

http://www.logicsupply.com/
http://www.mini-box.com/
http://www.acscontrol.com/
http://freedos.org/

http://www.ultimarc.com/
http://www.vetra.com/
http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/
http://www.groovygamegear.com/
http://www.tokn.net/
http://www.xkeys.com/
http://www.electronickeyboards.com/

http://www.cnc4pc.com/
http://www.winford.com/
http://www.homeshopcnc.com/
http://www.orientalmotor.com/
http://www.pico-systems.com/

http://www.plitron.com/
http://www.digikey.com/
http://www.mouser.com/
http://www.jameco.com/

http://www.mcmaster.com/
http://www.mscdirect.com/
http://www.use-enco.com/


Hopefully, that's enough to get you started... But, I'm sure you'll have more questions, so please feel free to ask! [img]smile.gif[/img]

hammerhead,
remind me to call you next time i get into my gortonhomemadeamatic.....seems you got the stuff

Hopefully, that's enough to get you started... But, I'm sure you'll have more questions, so please feel free to ask! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yes, that should keep me busy for a while, along with reading:

Ok, so Mach3 is good and cheap, but I need CAM. Is there a low cost CAM

and

Who makes the best CNC Sherline mill conversion?

And whatever else looks applicable to my situation.

Thank you, hammerhead74000 and you, Phil, John, damonfg and Pete for all of your assistance.

I'm looking forward to completing this project and then possibly converting a little 10" lathe to CNC. :rolleyes:

And yes, I'm sure that I'll have plenty of more questions in the days to come.

ooops, almost forgot wippin' boy. Thank U 2.
Jim