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  1. #41
    ckeith1 is offline Aluminum
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    Yes I do seriously compare a $7K Haas rotary table with an $800 Tormach!
    LOL well okay then, I guess you can get something for nothing who knew!

    BTW, whatís wrong with a Phase II rotary table
    Well besides all the backlash, the table lock levers you have to beat on with a block of wood after they corrode and freeze up, oil leaking all over the place, and peeling paint I guess they are not too bad. I purchased a 10 inch Phase II a couple of years back.

  2. #42
    macona's Avatar
    macona is offline Diamond
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    Hood: That's a decent screen, not great - a bit crowded - and light years better than the standard Mach2 screen which is the only one provided with the Tormach - unfortunately, the Tormach is ONLY approved for a custom version of the Mach2 software - and using anything else (including Mach3) voids the warranty.
    Custom my butt! They may have a custom screen set or something but its still Mach. Mach3 is still a work in progress so Tormach does not want to support two different platforms. You could install Mack 3 and copy the settings (You cant import settings from Mach2 to 3. Mach3 uses a XML file.) From what I understand Tormach will give you some settings info to set up your machine with Mach3. Using Mach3 wouldnt void your warranty any more than using TurboCNC.

  3. #43
    Winfield is offline Hot Rolled
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    Well besides all the backlash
    Haas RT has zero backlash? Do Haas Rotary Tables use a worm/wormgear drive?

    Any worm/worm gear driven RT has some amount of backlash. When using a RT manually, I always take up the backlash by approaching from the same direction. Phase II RTs have a limited backlash adjustment to the worm but there is always some amount of backlash with the worm/wormgear. Canít software compensate for the backlash thatís left?

    BTW, there is a form of RT that has zero backlash using RotoLoc technology of multiple cables. I have built a zero backlash RT using a single 8Ē bore Kaydon X bearing and multiple cables. The result was a RT with zero backlash with sub arc-sec repeatability and accuracy, and high stiffness.

  4. #44
    dammachines is offline Plastic
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    You can't seriously be comparing a Haas rotary table to this thing. It looks like they took an econo Phase II rotary table and slapped a stepper motor on it. Its a great value don't get me wrong, I like that they offer a rotary table in the price range the hobbiest can afford but lets not suggest this thing compares to a $7k Haas rotary table in accuracy, performance, durability, etc. because I don't buy it.
    That's pretty much what Tormach explains on their website. They know the limitations of their machine, and don't attempt to sell it as anything more. (at least that's how I take it...) I've had mine for almost a year and a half now.


    From the website:


    The single most frequent question we receive is "How can they be so cheap?". This question is normally in the context of a comparison with models offered by Haas, Yuasa, or others where similar size tables start at $5000 to $7000. Our tables are an outstanding value where they suit the application, but they are not suitable for all applications. The Tormach rotary tables have differences which can be important in certain situations. The more significant differences are noted here.....

    - Haas and other manufacturers quote 15 arc seconds backlash. Our tables will have 30 arc seconds of backlash. On an 8" table 30 seconds of angle amounts to 0.0006" at the outer edge of the table.

    - Any table should be locked in place during heavy milling. Conventional CNC tables have integral pneumatic table locks, designed to be automatically actuated. Tormach has manually operated levers for the table locks.

    - Tormach tables use hydrodynamic (oil film) bearings. There are no ball or roller bearings internal to the table.

    - Tormach motorized tables rotate at 1800 degrees per minute (5 RPM). Most servo driven tables move much faster.

  5. #45
    B Rad is offline Plastic
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    Ive been reading the info on the Tormach site and several threads in these forums but I am still left with a couple of questions. Does the Tormach have rigid tapping capability? If so how large of a tap can you use? I looked at their g-code table and didnt see any tapping cycles. Does their conversational programming include pocketing abilities? Can a helix be cut? Do they utilize true 3D, or is it 21/2D, meaning an xz move, shift in y, and repeat xz move?

  6. #46
    macona's Avatar
    macona is offline Diamond
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    No rigid tapping. Mach does not have the kind of control of the spindle needed to do that.

    Tormach comes with Mach2. I am not sure what extra wizards come*with that. If you upgrade to mach3 and get the newfangled solutions addon pack for mach 3 I think there is conversational pocketing,

    Mach has helical interpolation.

  7. #47
    Mike Henry is offline Stainless
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    BBrooks,

    Mach2 is capable of simultaneous 3-axis moves; 4th axis too, I think, but can't swear to that. Consequently any machine that is properliy set up with Mach2 will have those capabilities.

    Mach2 comes with 10 Wizards including ones for circular and rectangular pockets and another for thread milling.

    Rumor has that Tormach will make Mach3 available for their mill in a month or so and that will add quite a few new wizards to the ones that are available in Mach2 as well as make the New Fangled Wizards available.

    Mike

  8. #48
    macona's Avatar
    macona is offline Diamond
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    Mach will support up to 6 axis's.

    I just ordered one of the Gecko G100 "Grex" units. This is a IO unit that removes the need for parallel ports to drive a machine. It will also control up to 6 axis's simultaneously. There is even talk that you could run two separate 3 axis machines running two separate programs from the same computer. Also allows running machines much faster since the 45khz parallel port limit is now gone. The new limit is around 4MHz I understand.

  9. #49
    damonfg is offline Titanium
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    Hood, how does that touch screen work in a shop environment? Thinking about one here for DNC work & print viewing.

  10. #50
    Hood is offline Stainless
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    Hood, how does that touch screen work in a shop environment? Thinking about one here for DNC work & print viewing.
    Have a samsung monitor with a capacitive touch panel addon on the mill and it works great, gets regularly splashed with coolant and never had a problem with it so far (suppose now Ive said that it will be screwed up tomorrow )
    I have an ELO on the Lathe I am doing at the moment and I have discovered that coolant on it will activate it, ie coolant running down the screen will pull the mouse down the screen. I dont think it will be a problem as the Lathe shouldnt manage to get coolant anywhere near the screen and in any case it needs a tap on the screen to activate buttons and the coolant wont do that. However if I was in the market for another screen I would avoid getting a screen with the same Technology that the ELO is using. I think its called SAW (Sound Activated Wave? Technology)
    I was told that resistive screens were the ones to go for but the capacitive on the mill has been great. The benefit of the capacitive (and SAW) type screens is they have glass fronts which stand up well and are easily cleaned, resistive ones have a flexible plastic screen and may get damaged more easily, although I have no experience so cant say for sure.
    Hood

  11. #51
    Brandon Dixon is offline Aluminum
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    I have used a Tormach as a home machine for a few months now, and overall I have been quite pleased. I have just decided to make the jump up to a Sharp VMC becuase I have some bigger pseudo production projects waiting.

    The Tormach is an awsome value. For me to make a step up is requiring a 4x investment and I still haven't bought CAT40 tooling.

    Sure, the Tormach won't take a .375" deep cut with 3/4" endmill full slotting at 100" a minute... but it will take a smaller, slower cut with that em and get the job done. I agree with Greg Jackson at Tormach when he says that for the home shop you are likely to spend more time on programming and setup than actually cutting.

    Mach is doing a good job in this environment, plus it has some features that big $ machines don't, for instance I've gotten used to being able to put a comment in the tool table telling me the description of the tool.

    Also, if you want a good deal on one, i just listed mine in the classifieds:
    Tormach for sale

    Brandon Dixon
    Soon to be Sharp 2412S Owner
    Happy Tormach customer

  12. #52
    macona's Avatar
    macona is offline Diamond
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    I love my touch screen. It is an ELO SAW and it is somewhat sensitive to fluids as well. Saw stands for Standing Acoustic Wave. There are tiny piezo transducers on the corners and pickups. a 5mhz signal is fed to them creating a standng wave across the glass. When you touch the glass your finger absorbs some of that wave depending on pressure. And since there is plastic coating like traditional touchscreens its perfectly clear and also serves to protect your LCD.

    Apparently there is a soft stylus available that will work with this kind of screen. I might get on and just hang it from a string off the console.

    http://www.elotouch.com/Technologies...howitworks.asp

    Here is a pic of the console I built for my mill. I used the existing enclosure to contain the computer and controls. Thats a 15" open frame LCD.


  13. #53
    Hood is offline Stainless
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    Macona
    You can use anything that is soft, I sometimes use my head LOL
    But seriously I tested it out with the soft handle of a screwdriver and it worked fine.
    Also thanks for the right meaning of SAW, couldnt remember.
    Hood

  14. #54
    damonfg is offline Titanium
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    Thanks guys.
    With either of these touch screen technologies, are they likely to get scratched up in a shop environment? I like the idea of glass (resistive) but plastic on the SAW style ?? Will it hold up ?

  15. #55
    Hood is offline Stainless
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    The capacitive are glass and the SAW type are also glass, well at least it is on mine and that link provided above also suggests its glass. The resistive ones are NOT glass as the way they work is the middle layer has lots of little bumps to seperate the outer and inner layers, when you press on the screen the outer layer flexes and touches the inner layer.
    I have had the one on my mill for about a year and it gets used nearly every day . The type of work I do is repair/maintenance of mainly fishing boats (machining and fabrication) my hands are always black and grimy and I regularly have to wipe the screen so I can see it under all the dirty fingerprints. To date there have been no scratches or problems, glass is tough stuff.
    Hood

  16. #56
    macona's Avatar
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    ELO sells the stylus for $10. I might just get one.

    Yeah, both the capacitive and SAW are glass. So much clearer than resistive.

    Turns out the touchscreen in mine is designed for environments where damage could occur (public places) it either chemically treated glass or tempered glass.

  17. #57
    Hood is offline Stainless
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    Mine is a Kiosk style monitor.
    This is what my manual says
    Surface Durability Surface durability is that of glass, Mohs’ hardness rating of 7.
    Expected Life Performance
    No known wear-out mechanism, as there are no layers, coatings,
    or moving parts. IntelliTouch technology has been operationally
    tested to more than 50 million touches in one location without
    failure, using a stylus similar to a finger.
    Sealing Unit is sealed to protect against splashed liquids, dirt, and dust.
    Environmental Chemical Resistance The active area of the touchscreen is resistant to all chemicals
    that do not affect glass, such as:
    Acetone
    Toluene
    Methyl ethyl ketone
    Isopropyl alcohol
    Methyl alcohol
    Ethyl acetate
    Ammonia-based glass cleaners
    Gasoline
    Kerosene
    Vinegar

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