I hunted all around and never did see OSG. I guess they weren't there.
The dancing girls at the Ingersol booth were borderline creepy.
Doosan and Toyoda both had quite a presence. Toyoda had an entire 50 taper FMS up and running.
I think Fanuc drug in every single model variation of the Robodrill.
Seems like everyone has a replaceable carbide tipped drill that can do amazing things. I never really payed these much mind, but they seem to have come a long way. Allied had one going 1700 SFM and 200 IPM in aluminum.
The line between mill and lathe blurs a little more every day.
For once I focused on things I need to buy (West hall) most of which are not "news", just things I need to get my act together on.
Note to self, do NOT try new shoes at IMTS, my knees are bad enough... :ack2:
Some observations on "news"
1. Universal Robot - (that's a brand name) - robots which would be easy to move, looked easy to program (but I've not programmed any others), and don't need enclosures because if you walk into them they just stop. (Would be different if end of arm tooling was sharp or otherwise dangerous.) Small weight capacities - like 10# or 20# - but for a robot you bring out for the occasional batch job and then move out of the way for normal work - quite striking (at least to me.) Of course, integration with a machine tool is still required...
2. It appears that Mori has a "cut gears on a mainstream 5-axis machine tool" solution, and DMG has a "cut gears on a mainstream 5-axis machine tool solution" and they are different. The first seems to need special tools, but the tool vendor says they are only mildly special. The second is apparently mostly a clever (and pricey) CAM package. In both cases it's about exploiting elaborate 5 axis machines for low volumes - nobody seemed to think that even medium volumes wouldn't stay on gear cutting machines. Folks in the gear industry will have to say how important this development will or will not be.
3. Seems like several vendors (DMG, Doosan, DoAll, ...) are either growing into new market spots or going through a "refresh". Some of the refresh stuff is just glitz (shiney lights, fancy bodywork) but a lot of it seems to be "yes, that is better...".
4. Various "commodity" vendors are clearly climbing the "special" curve - at least on the surface. It seems to me that fairly serious 5-axis machines (both mill and lathe) are much more plentiful than 6 years ago, and almost all of the lathes without live tooling were oil-field brutes or otherwise special. The number of different vendors showing large bridge mills, etc. seems to keep growing - how much of a worldwide market for such things can there be?
I wonder a little bit about a "selection bias" - the products that make margins that support costly things like huge booths at IMTS will be pretty cutting edge. So maybe the market is still largely driven by more "mundane" equipment that we don't notice at IMTS because it doesn't support a "booth" the size of a factory?
anybody else get any cool swag?
LOL... yeah, that was a bit odd... like something you'd expect at IMTS 1978, not 2012. Here's a sample of what you guys missed...:popcorn:
Originally Posted by ewlsey
lol so stupid.....
Originally Posted by Milacron
Is the DMG/Mori Seiki DMU 50 Ecoline what you mean ?
Originally Posted by Tonytn36
Seems pretty slow on positioning and tool changes, by today's standards. Did they have the rapid override switch set down at 25% or something?
Don't know...having horizontal magazine, it's not designed for super fast tool changes anyway but I do wonder if it could be sped up a bit in that regards as well.
Originally Posted by PixMan
I saw the little girls dancing at the tool booth, and yes I was really creeped out. They looked VERY VERY young, and dancing in front of an audience that was not there to appreciate their dancing skills. YIKES.
I got a call last week from a software vendor, one of the very few who were allowed to scan my tag.
They were calling to get permission to call me...
I asked how they were able to call me in the first place???
Then they wanted to know if I was going to buy their product.
HTH Should I know? You haven't showed me anything yet...
Then today they called again, the same telemarketer, wanting to know what my title was, and if I had a enough title to be worthy of someone higher up in their organization calling me.....
I hung up on the Bozo.
I'm guessing they had a crash or broken tool, and the apps guy was proving everything out before letting it rip at 100% again. I don't believe DMG would make a machine that slow.
Originally Posted by PixMan
On another note - I've been a big fan of DMG's aesthetics over the last decade or so - but I almost feel embarrassed for whoever designed the sheet metal on this thing. "Hey, people love iPhones - so let's make the door of the machine look exactly like a giant iPhone..."
Mori really seems to think everyone needs a 24inch monitor on their CNC control. I would need to be 10 feet away to see everything on the screen.
As for the gurls in the Ingersol booth:
Neighbor booth guy told me that they were Hooters Gurls.
I ass_u_med that he meant that as a "type" of gurl, but no - he said that they actually went to a semi local Hooters and hired the gurls for $100/day. (min wage?)
I didn't watch them for more than 5 seconds simply as I will not go into a booth that employs such insanity. I did for the first time go into the Allied booth for the first time in many years as I guess this years "theme" didn't piss me off nearly as bad as previous years?
But other booths with their race cars, side by side ATV's, and God only knows what all there was? I never understood jist what they think they are accomplishing? Sure, you may git a bunch of guys into your booth, and you may scan forty-leven badges, but who cares? These guys weren't there b/c they were interested in your product. (roll-eyes)
Also - there were two booths with the dancing gurls there, Iscar and Ingersol. Both Warren's companies. (selling the same products) I was told by the "neighbor" that Warren came in mid week to see how it was going, and found the Ingersol booth was louder than the Iscar booth and shut down their volume as he didn't want them luder than his main line booth.
I was surprised to actually see someone that I knew there - that wasn't a salesman. But actually he seen me first. (and didn't run the other way?) As I was walking accrost the one corridor and EWLSEY stopped me and said Hey!
With the big push for 5x, I hafta wonder if there will be enough werk to fill all those machines? Will that werk still demand a higher price to justify the machines for long? Or will there be a glut of folks all trying to land the same werk - creating a higher supply than demand ratio? I don't think I will be looking to go that route unless the right job comes along.... (as opposed to buying a machine and trying to fill it)
I found "Scott from Hurco", but he was busy showing a potential customer how the control werks, and I didn't bother him. I see they have a live tooled lathe now too. I don't know if the iron is any differ'nt, but I doo think that Hurco has done good and modern-ising their look at least.
Lots of coolant folks there this yr.
I am not into synthetics, but for those of you who are - I would at least reccomend that you talk to this guy at Chemetall
He had a good schpeal.
But I am old skewl and a die hard soluable guy, and their niche' is synthetics/semi
One other booth that I found interesting was the Walter Dunner (with the little Dutch **'s over the u) AFAIK this was his wife "manning" the booth this week.
I was drawn in from the pic of a "S" cut collet slotting design, and found the other half of the booth even more interesting. They are offering a pnue adjustable guide bushing for the Swiss guys. I know that some machines have offered this feature as an option at least, but not heard of many that have it. I think that is about the only option that is not on mine, although the button is there.... (oh bother...)
I know thaqt she had units there for Deco and Star. I am guessing that the other two there were Citizen and Tsugami, but I don't know....
I have been threatening to design and build something like that for my machine, but not made it to the top of the priority list (or even close to it) yet....
http://eksales.com/ had a used coolant evap unit there that most everyone could justify.
It was 4 grand and quite simple. It just evaps the water off tho. I would think that the remaining oil would go fine in your chumms waste oil furnace tho?
Did all y'all gitcher free set of jaws from Dillon?
I am Ox and I approve this h'yah overview!
Thanks for the link to the water eater OX. One of those is on my wish list. This one is pretty nice too, but more than 4k. Drum Evaporators - ENCON Evaporators I like the fact that all the crap is in a drum and doesn't touch the heaters.
I missed the free jaw set. I did get the email but didn't make it over there before closing time. Should have went there first I guess.
Did anyone see the fanuc pill sorting robot. It dumped out three bottles of different colored pills then put them back into their bottles. Took longer to dump them out than put them back. :eek:
The coolant evap unit that I linked to has the heaters under the bottom.
No contact with the fluid.
I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!
I find this interesting as well. It seems like every other post in the CNC section is someone looking for info on a 5 axis trunion or multi tasking lathe.
Originally Posted by Ox
I like to think that I get into some pretty complex parts. The only thing we ever ran into that could not be handled in 2 or 3 stations on a 4 axis HMC would be some angled oil passages in torque converter impellers. We solved that issue with an angled head in a live tool lathe.
What are people using these things for? Getting the work offsets right and getting the parts through inspection would be damn near impossible. It is confusing enough on a 4 axis.
Not to mention that a CAM system would probably be mandatory, and it would need to be a pretty powerful one.
I highly doubt anyone is milling out 6 inch diameter impellers like every demo machine I have ever seen.
I see the need for 5 axis in tool and die, and surly aerospace, but not the job shop.
re: Ox's comment on AMCE - they bug me too Ox, the worst was the year they had the lady model in the jungle suit. The kicker was there was a perfectly competent lady application tech wearing normal clothes who was super helpful with my questions. There ARE smart people who happen to be women who could and do have real jobs in this industry. This really isn't the place for models and show girls. (I like young women as well as the next guy, but come on.)
re: 5-axis - keeping in mind that I *don't* do this as a business - when I bought one in 2006 it was all about "one machine to rule them all" and I always assumed CAM would be required anyway. What does this have to do with Ox and ewlsey's comments? I wonder how much of the "5 axis push" is companies/shops trying to have fewer more flexible machines, and how much is just marketing and selection effects?
What I mean by "selection effects" - showing at IMTS is very costly. So what gets shown there? Machines with (a) high margin or (b) high wow factor and big volumes expected or (c) small things in small booths where having people wander past is effective. So there can be a thing where what we see in the big booths is the "high margin" or "new" or "we have an advantage here" part of the market - but that the real volumes and money are in much more mundane machines. Haas showed their UM750. Interesting. Does anybody think that will be anywhere nearly as important a machine for them as the VF-2/VF-3 and the like? If you are Okuma/Makino/Mori/DMG/MAG/... and its hard for you to compete in commodity machines with Doosan/haas/Hurco/YCM/<insert long list here> then you probably don't get much return on showing ordinary 3-axis machines. (Or so I would think, I have no inside information on their businesses.)
Sort of like most every GM dealer has a Corvette on the lot from time to time, and lots of people stop to see them, but the real volumes are in sedans and pickup trucks.
But all that really means is that the distribution of machine configurations you see at IMTS and what you would see in use in the real world may be only vaguely related. (Lots of B-axis lathes at IMTS. How many of those are in use in real shops?)
Well, there are I think 12 on our floor. Two in the in-house job shop and the rest in lower volume production. The two in the job shop are busy machines and make a lot of one-off parts.
Originally Posted by bryan_machine
I would have passed them by as well but purposely stopped to take that video as I knew you guys would think it was funny :) And for the record, they apparently weren't all "country" music...as I made my hasty retreat I think I heard 'em fire up some more "cutting edge" (pun intended) pop music for the next number :ack2:
Originally Posted by Ox
On another subject, anyone besides me impressed by the Okuma booth ? I mean the booth itself ! It was basically a replica of a 1940's brick industrial building. The fiberglass brick walls were absolute perfection....even close up, indistinguishable from real bricks and mortar.. until you knocked on them.... I'd love to find the source of that !
I had to go and knock on the bricks trying to figure out what they did. Very impressive setup but I was disappointed that they did not have many smaller machines in their main booth. They had a couple of Genos machines scattered out in other booths/halls and I never did find them. I really want to look at one of the lathes but by the time I found out where they were my feet were shot and just said screw it.
Well another IMTS gone by and I couldn't make. I have yet to attend a single one. Looks like it was interesting. I'm sure I'll have something going on in two years that prevents me from going. AGAIN