Info on getting started

my bike shop has bought an FX25II ikegai lathe and it has a FX25N controler on it. The CNC programmer that we had mysteriously fell off the planet. I want to try my hand at this for some simple things (end caps and axle ends and such) and future stuff. I have a few simple programs that he wrote, and the programming manual for the machine. I have decoded the program and know what it does, but i need to understand why. i guess im looking for a good, easy to use system that i can start learning how to machine parts. my shop is looking to expand our CNC stuff to include a CNC mill, a Flowjet, and if needed, a more advanced CNC lathe so i only want to buy this software once.

I have read these forums and see that a lot of people have had luck with Gibbs, i looked at their web site and it seems to be capable of doing what i want in both the milling and turning. $5k is a little steep for a starter, but my boss may go for it.

I have a fair amount of Autocad and fabrication experience so im not a complete bafoon at this, but i need a starting point. how about a sub 200 page book (i am busy you know) to show me the why of what im coding and an inexpensive cam system that i can learn on. that would mean something with a simulator.

oh, we cut stuff in aluminium, DOM steel, and chrome molley if it matters.

thanks

I'm just learning CNC myself and bought a book from www.betatechnical.com that shows how to program and what each command does. He also has a basic simulator you can download for free. It might be more basic then what you are looking for, but for a beginner it is a good reference.

Are you sure about the controller?I have an Ikegai with a Fanuc 6T and I thought they all had Fanuc controls.
regards,Mark.

I have no idea why you would want to buy another 'putor opperated system to add to the complexity of a simple 2 axis machine. (assuming that is what you are talking aboot....)

Learn your G's and M's and how the current programs are structured and learn to write your own. You SHOULD have the ability to write your own simple prog's longhand - just so that you can finger out why something aint doo'in what you want and how to edit it anyway.

2 axis lathe is aboot as simple as it gets. Turn the rapids down when trying something new and leave one paw on the prog STOP button.

Think Snow!
Ox

mark, your right, its a 6tB. i just looked at the manual again.

>Turn the rapids down when trying something new and leave one paw on the prog STOP button.< by OX should be engraved in stone.

Does that mean you have Master Cam in house, if so contact your reseller and see if you can add just the 2 axis lathe program to your existing software.

$5K isn't to much when you start adding up the time your going to spend sit'n on your butt cuss'n, scrap'n and crash'n parts.

"2 axis lathe is aboot as simple as it gets."

"It doesn't get much simpler than a lathe."

"Once you get up to speed and can program with some degree of efficiency"


I am glad you guys think so.

Is one week trying to bore soft jaws pretty good?

Well I learned that unlike my mills actual position on the screen does not mean anything and that has got to be the lamest thing about my machine. Only time offsets are active is when you call them in MDI or program. I’m getting it but she is going slow. Good think I wrote down what the machine numbers were before I changed every thing to get the tool to be zero. And it is a good thing I have ample hair to pull out.

I hope to be able to say this is simple some day.

"The only things complicated are those we do not understand."
Some one told me this once.
(have to keep repeating this to myself over and over again)

Throwing in some Mastercam at this point would send me over the edge.

Tim,
Not Captain Okuma yet.

If using MDI in absolute mode, you would first need to run a tool change line (even if the tool you want is there - you still need to load the offset to the register). You may even need to run a line or more to set your operating mode (if not using default), Your zero offsets should remain? (G20)

MDI can be challanging on a lathe actually.

It is best that you stick with auto mode, IMO. Just go a little at a time.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

tumbleweed... just starting out myself on a mori SL3H, easiest thing i can offer is to work off machine x,0 z,0 for a while.
takes a little addition and subtraction, but far less exiciting rapid moves (especially close to a spinning chuck).
any way offsets will come in time, dont worry.
Ive got to say oxs post was a keeper(one paw on the stop program button)
lots a luck,
jack

I started a reply for the G and M codes on a paper close at hand and ended up running with it, so I will post it here instead:

I have a pc of paper in the drawer (actually inside the cover of my programming manual) that has my initial "setup" for the program on it. I start every program on that machine exactly the same way.
Fanuc type:

O_ _ _ _ (Customer name and brief part name and/or actuall part number)
G98
G10P0XoZ-_._
G20
G0T0X15.Y24.
Z10.
M61
N1T101(Trigon)

O and four numbers designate the program number, which always has a text message behind it.

Since I copy this every time I have to look up now to even see for sure what G98 is. LOL! - It is for IPM feedrate. I always program in that, so there is no confusion...

The G10 is for work shift - which is mostly a Z axis thing. I recommend setting your tools at Z zero at the face of your chuck, and then punch in a Z offset a half inch (Or whatever) more than your part length. I like to keep things simple and most always set it up on the even half inch, but it could be anything.. One nice thing aboot this too is that when manually setting a bar in the collet - I can look at the front page of the prog and see exactly how far the Z0 is from the chuck - and obviously set my bar just past that.

G20 is ... lets see... Inch data input.

Next line sends my turret strait up and my subspindle back.

Next line sends my turret to a safe index position...

I know that every program in my library is set exactly the same - and what I can expect my slides to doo when I hit reset and then go. I can look and see if there if it will crash ahead of time and drive on. Saves a lot of time. (I don't make too many stupid crashouts in a long time.)

M61 is for barfeed...

I start almost every prog with your basic trigon. Of course this is up for debate on every part...

This is my very generic start to EVERY program that I run through my most used machine.

A very good idea is to take your G and M codes and copy those pages and get them laminated and staple them to the wall next to your machine and/or desk. Saves a lot of time!

While some of my very first programs are slightly diff, they are of the same basics. I can tell a program that I wrote that first yr tho for sure! LOL! (Why did I doo that?)

I am sure that your machine is slightly diff, but you will still have the same basic principals I am sure.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Well all I know at this point is first line on mine should be G50Sxxxx , xxxx being the max spindle speed. Before that I can put in tool numbers and description and were Z 0 should be and material blank size. I am kind of familiar with descriptions from running CMM's. Most CMM software allows comments and I know there value. My current CNC mills have no provision for this and it is a PIA. I usually mark up a drawing, but go by memory allot. To risky on this lathe. As far a zero shift, I have an area called chuck barrier that you put in the chuck and jaw size and it will not allow any tools in this zone. Assuming you had the offsets right and the feature turned on and the Z zero right. You can turn it on and off with M24 and on with M25. Tailstock has similar protection. Kind of like soft limits but not read the same way. As far as getting the turret clear I have to send it to a location beyond the travel of the soft limit unless I tell it to index and ignore this. So if soft limit is X10Z20 I would tell it X50Z50 and it just goes to the limit, X10Z20. The soft limits are movable so if you are making a small part the turret might not have to move away that much. I am thinking that this is pretty much the same for other CNC lathes as well???

mbjackdaddy, Sounds like you and me are in the same boat. A small raft in the middle of the ocean. Hey, there goes OX and the rest of these guys waving at us from the deck of the SSALWAYSSNOWING.

Tumbleweed... I prefer to think of as goin round the learning curve on two wheels, and hanging on for dear life.
jack

Starting to understand it. When the green light is on, I am getting out of the hole.









[This message has been edited by Tumbleweed Tim (edited 07-25-2004).]

Have to agree with OX regarding using cam on lathe programming, for the most part. If the control is old such that it doesn't have auto roughing cycles, etc that could make the need for something to generate the code a lot more prominent. If I've got something with a series of intersecting curves to program, I'll draw out the curves on cad and generate the code just for the curves. Lots simpler than trying to calculate all the I's and K's, but I still hand code the remainder of the program. Lathe programming in general just doesn't justify spending a bunch of time in a cam program, particularly if you're familiar with all the cycles built into the control and you use them. To scphantm re waterjet machines....you mentioned bike shop so I assume you must be building bikes or looking to make aftermarket parts? I make quite a few aftermarket Harley parts, and I can say one thing.....Leave the waterjet to the clowns at Orange County Choppers unless you've got a TV show like they do. A cnc plasma cutter can make any bracket, etc for a bike in far less time, operate for a fourth the cost of a waterjet, and not cost you $150K up front. The only thing I see on the market right now that really requires a waterjet is some of the detail work in high end tribal and flame design shift linkages. Once you're familiar with the costs involved in operating a waterjet and the speed of the cut, you'll quickly see those linkages arent all profit by any means. Waterjets are great machines, but for bike parts they're total overkill.

To tumbleweed tim: The control in your pic looks like either a 7000 or the newer U series. I assume since Okuma still uses G50 to set max speed, they haven't made many code changes. One thing to watch for with the G50 is that, if you stick it in a program with an X or Z value, it is then an on the fly zero offset. Never have known why they use G50 for both, cause they sure ain't related. Having to do an MDI tool change to get the current position to display correctly isnt an unusual thing. However, when you're setting tool offsets thats not necessary. You can just leave it in manual mode, manually index the turret, touch off the tool, enter an x or z value in the tool offset screen and hit <cal> to calculate and set the correct offset for that tool. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but I like to leave the known tool offsets alone and set up for a new part by resetting the zero offset. If you keep the Z offset for tool 1 as zero, then its simple to index manually to 1, touch off Z at the chuck jaw or whatever reference point corresponds to something in your part program, enter the z zero offset value and hit <cal>. Some folks like to call the end of the part zero and program everything z- from there, while others do it the opposite way. Either way works, but being consistent helps a lot. All my Okumas are older, so I dont know if this is still accurate for the controls from the last few years or not, but if i've got any question about a first time run thru, i put the control in block mode and run it thru, looking at each line of code to know what its gonna do before i hit the button again. In block, the rapids follow whatever feedrate reduction you've got set on the knob, so if a tool heads toward the chuck you've got time to stop it. The chuck barrier function is something thats definitely worth using. All it takes is one time where you go in manually to tweak an offset due to wear, but forget the decimal or put it in the wrong place, and on the next cycle the tool slams the chuck. Makes you wish you'd spent an extra minute or two to set up the chuck barrier. Some folks would no doubt disagree, but most who have spent much time running an Okuma turning center will tell you there's no better lathe and no better control than Okuma. A buddy of mine owns several Mori's, but he says they'd be a better lathe if you could get them with Okuma controls. I've got 4 of them, and if I get to the point of needing #5, it will be an Okuma too. Be happy that you're starting at the top of the heap

metlmunchr,
Control is OSP-U10L. Same as 7000 but no color. Yes G50 is both 'S' or XZ shift. I will use VZS X or Z if I ever do that. Control is much easier now that I have got some of the basic stuff down. Yes I am using CAL to set Z in the zero set page and leaving X alone. Then all the tools set in tool offset page using CAL, with Z for tool set to zero having no offset in Z only X. Once I got it going it was easy to make everything nominal using ADD in the offset page. I think I understand the buffer thing. So I am always calling the program up after edit to get the fresh version.
I have heard favorable things about the control from a few guys that have used them, But I don't have anything to compare it to. Went from first side to second side on my parts real easy and now running some 1 and 2 quantity stuff. This week I will be back on the same parts for 55 more pieces. Cycle time for first side is 3 min. second is 3 min 46 seconds. About 7 min. a part. I cut it way down using an end mill to remove the center rather quickly then turn and bore with 2 other tools. End mill (centerdex) goes half way then out and back in boring like a b bar. then back to center then thru then out a bit the thru like a b bar. Scary, chips are solid pellets. Having fun now.