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Just How Bad of an Idea is a $3,000 used Mori or Okuma CNC Lathe?

Johnny SolidWorks

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Location
Rochester
I posted elsewhere today about horizontal CNC machining centers, and got some awesome feedback. Well, in my futile search to find the deal of the century on a used VMC, I happened across a LOT of used CNC lathes that are, again, way cheaper than I would have expected.

Okuma LNC8 w/ Siemens controller, 8" Kitty 3-Jaw, 12 tool turret, and a chip conveyor for $6,000.

Mori Seiki AL-2B w/ Fanuc controller, 8" 3-Jaw, 8 spot turret, and chip conveyor - $3,000

Mazak QT-10 w/ T-Plus controller, 3-Jaw, 8 tool turret, and chip conveyor - $8,000

They are all claimed to be good, working machines, with videos of them under power and making chips (which I haven't seen, so take that with a grain of salt.) The Mazak is currently running in a shop, and the operator (not the owner) tells me it's a really solid machine.

I know some folks on here are probably running similar equipment in their shops every day, without major catastrophic failure on a weekly basis - so why not buy one to get a foot in the door of CNC lathe work?

Someone talk me out of my insanity please. Convince me what a horrible deal these all are, because I just keep thinking to myself: buy one, hire a guy to go through and check/fix all the issues, and have a good quality, older machine on the floor for what Haas charges for the "High Pressure Coolant" option.

Maybe it's because I've always driven beater old cars that lasted forever, because I bought stuff that was good quality when it was new, or maybe I'm just not ready to accept that fact that these are more likely to be $3,000 boat anchors than $3,000 CNC lathes.
 
its a crap shoot ,,, you might luck out and get one that you find parts for or never need parts for or you might have a machine that dies on the move and never runs. There is a "REASON" there cheap

if the shops making good parts on it and its not costing him a lot to keep it going most of the time shops keep them ,,

Most of the bigger shops swap machines out at about 10 years in my area and they still get good money for them ,, then they go to mid size smaller shops and they run them tell there scrap price ... so your asking about the scrap and if its good scrap!
 
Depends how close to the next big repair they are. One could be running great but the Z ballscrew is 200 hours from failing so bad it can't be rebuilt(but you can't hear it during demo because the shop is noisy). My advice would be to find a very low hour machine that's not desireable to a job shop because the control is old or etc.That takes diligence and luck.
 
Johnny, I have 2 LNC-8's one is a 91, I bought new, and one a 96, I bought out of Osteonics, in NJ. bought it 2000. the pro's: built well, very heavy and reliable. the cons: When they go, and they will, they get pricey to fix. EBay is full of parts, and there are a couple of VERY knowledgeable Okuma repair guys on this forum. the common board issues, are the "BLD 50" axis controllers. IF you can find them on ebay they will set you back 650 to 1200 each time. That said, I have found a company that repairs boards at the component level, with a two week turn time, so plan on being down. My "sister" machines usually mean I can rob from one to keep the other going, if I have a job running. Both of my machines are the OSP5020L control, so I can not speak to the control on the machine you mention. offer 3 to 4500. on it. You cant really go wrong, because if it truly sh#ts the bed, you can part it out for more than that, then scrap the Iron. Best of luck, on whatever you choose.
Regards,
Chris
 
If I found a running Fanuc equipped Mori AL-2B reasonably near me that was not totally and completely thrashed for $3k it'd be on the trailer and headed to my shop.
 
I've done it and had good luck, but I can fix them. If you can't fix them yourself, it's definitely a crap shoot.
 
I bet that AL is the exact one I set up and ran for 14yrs. I swear to god.
 
When jumping into a dirt cheap machine, there are 2 main concerns as far as I'm concerned

1) SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!
they had better have made a ton of 'em, and there better be a bunch of them running to this day.
How do you find out? do a search here, see how many people KNOW how to fix them, and how many
people are RUNNING them.

2) Parts availability and cost..


I paid $4k for my '84 Mazak QT20 over 10 years ago.. She's been a good machine. I treat her well and talk
to her, I don't push her too hard, but once in a while I let her stretch her legs.. I don't worry about
her, because if she has a problem, I know where to go first... RIGHT HERE!!! quite a few really good guys here
that still run the old Mazaks and know them inside and out, far far more than I do.. I know I can get parts
and if I can't get a new board, I know it can be repaired..

Okuma and Mori?? I don't know.. Dig around and find out, but since we are talking lathes, if it
doesn't have Mazatrol, I'm not touching it.
 
An okuma with a Siemens control? If that's true, I wouldn't touch it because I can only imagine the trouble with that retrofit in the event it goes down. (Unless you are OK with a dead machine.) Plenty of other cheap Okuma's out there if you look around some...

The Mori - You didn't specify what vintage/type Fanuc conrol. If the mechanicals are good, and it's at least a 0T or newer with digital servos, then that would be tough to pass up.

The Mazak - Probably the safest of the bunch, provided the mechanicals check out. Lots of those old Mazak lathes still running today. I don't think they build them like they used to.
 
Okuma LNC8 w/ Siemens controller, 8" Kitty 3-Jaw, 12 tool turret, and a chip conveyor for $6,000.

Mori Seiki AL-2B w/ Fanuc controller, 8" 3-Jaw, 8 spot turret, and chip conveyor - $3,000

Mazak QT-10 w/ T-Plus controller, 3-Jaw, 8 tool turret, and chip conveyor - $8,000

The Okuma could be a good lathe, but depends on the vintage of the control. Hopefully it is some kind of OSP and not a Siemens. Price seems OK of it's in good shape.

The Mori could be pretty old, possibly a 6T control. I grew to like my 6T, but it's an aquired taste if you are used to newer/friendlier controls. Price seems very fair.

Personally, I think that Mazak is over priced. I know folks like those controls, but the QT machines are built pretty light compared to the other machines on your list.


Are you interested in a 1995ish Mori SL-20 with a Yasnac LX-3 control? I have one that might be for sale in the near future.
 
I was in your same shoes last year. I found a mazak for 4 grand I saw it run I saw it make parts I talked to the owner he said he would help me set it up. I chickened out. I called a friend he jumped on it got it to his shop got it running then it died a month later, he payed to have some boards fixed, 2 grand. A tech came out and reinstalled the boards and got the lathe running now he is into it for 8 grand, 4 for the lathe a 1000 to move it 2 for the board and a 1000 in labor. The machine has produced 2 grand worth of parts and it has been having error messages and making funny noises so he needs to have a tech come out. I may never own one but if I do it will be a brand spankin new one so that I can call and complain to the company and they will fix it. I am betting he will have ten in that lathe by the time it is up and running parts again. How long till it breaks again, who knows but I bet he will be lucky to break even.
 
How long till it breaks again, who knows but I bet he will be lucky to break even.

A new machine is going to cost you $50,000 minimum. It's going to cost just as much to move it and fix it. New machines break down too.

It's dumb to buy a machine you don't have work for. It's really dumb to buy a brand new machine you don't have work for.
 
Counterpoint to KPotter's example:

1979 Mori Seiki SL-2B bought in 2015 for $4k + $2k to move it
$300 for a service call (thought bad board, false alarm, just a switch in the wrong position)
~$80,000 money made on the machine since installation

Now, the machine may take a dump tomorrow morning, then it's anybody's guess as to what it takes to get it working again :willy_nilly:.

Regards.

Mike
 
I was in your same shoes last year. I found a mazak for 4 grand I saw it run I saw it make parts I talked to the owner he said he would help me set it up. I chickened out. I called a friend he jumped on it got it to his shop got it running then it died a month later, he payed to have some boards fixed, 2 grand. A tech came out and reinstalled the boards and got the lathe running now he is into it for 8 grand, 4 for the lathe a 1000 to move it 2 for the board and a 1000 in labor. The machine has produced 2 grand worth of parts and it has been having error messages and making funny noises so he needs to have a tech come out. I may never own one but if I do it will be a brand spankin new one so that I can call and complain to the company and they will fix it. I am betting he will have ten in that lathe by the time it is up and running parts again. How long till it breaks again, who knows but I bet he will be lucky to break even.


On the other hand, I paid $4k 10 years ago, running for 9 (storage for a year).. Besides the constant coolant
pump problems.. Costs have been new belts ??$$, spindle encoder $300, and a 39 cent o-ring in the turret. You
just have to talk nice to her. honestly I think its a crap shoot, and I've been very lucky, and I talk nice to her!!
 
....The Mori could be pretty old, possibly a 6T control. I grew to like my 6T, but it's an aquired taste if you are used to newer/friendlier controls. Price seems very fair.

The oldest Fanuc control on a Mori AL-2 would be a 10T. Newest would be some form of 0T but it would be called something like MF4T because Mori was starting to make up their own designations by then. The 10T is a solid reliable control.
 
I posted elsewhere today about horizontal CNC machining centers, and got some awesome feedback. Well, in my futile search to find the deal of the century on a used VMC, I happened across a LOT of used CNC lathes that are, again, way cheaper than I would have expected.
Given the way the world is today with an nc machine in every pot, if I were to start out I'd go manual and find a specialty. Do one-offs, repairs, very short runs that don't need nc. Maybe a small vmc would make sense but electronics suck. There have been two threads here from people needing bevel gears in just the past week. Choose something like that, that no one wants to do or is doing, and skip the whole cnc nightmare.
 
Hi i bought a mori sl4 with fanuc t6 right around that price plus $300 to repair and works great but G50 sucks. As long as you can fix most stuff yourself you will been fine with a older machine and it was not beat when you bought it.
 
I'm buying an old mill rather than a new one, but I've researched and researched, I know how much just about every part costs, I know they are actually all available, and I know what I can do myself and what I will have to pay a tech to do. Those are the best things you can do, requirements really, to keep yourself from getting fcuked on the deal. If your familiar with the machine, you know it's the right controller, etc, then your just gotta figure out how to tell exactly what kind of shape it really is, pay a tech to inspect it if you need to. That will give you leverage in the deal and you'll know how much your going to need to put into it to get it where you need it to be or to get it reliable.. There's always a risk to anything, educating yourself about the specific machine will stack the deck in your favor add much as possible, you'll be one of the many guys that's stalks a good deal as oppressed to a guy who gets fucked. That's what I think anyways, I'm not familiar with that lathe our I'd tell you everything I know, but I'm sure many ppl are, talk to as many of them as you can, then talk to done more. Best of luck!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
I got mine for $1500 it was working when we removed it but had some trouble setting it up for the money i never expected much still its far from a boat anchore
 








 
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