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  1. #41
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    I just put some new Mari ER's in a couple machines today. I've been using them since 2010. We've tried other brands, but keep coming back to MariTool. He has the shortest gauge length BT-30 ER32 collet chuck you can buy (52mm) and on a 30 taper, 8 mm makes a *lot* of difference. I don't even want to think about how much money we lost attempting to use some Albrect Uber Chucks... just too long of a projection. Tool life has gone up 40% or more since we switched back to those 52 mm ER chucks. (For our application).

  2. Likes Ox, Bobw, SND, dstryr, fmari --MariTool- and 5 others liked this post
  3. #42
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    Tonytn36,

    Considering how many spindle hours and experience you guys have on BT30 equipment that says a lot. Thank you for your business.

    Sometimes I feel like a broken record because I keep on mentioning it, gage length is as important and sometimes more important than concentricity. Don't get me wrong, we dont skimp on concentricity. On the BT30-ER32-52 we constantly keep the OD taper to er socket ID to within 50 millionths TIR.


    Allloutmx,

    I am happy you like the packing list envelopes. From day one I decided never to use used packaging, cheap packaging, or popcorn. It says a lot about what you think about your customers by how you package your products. Throw everything in a box with some extra static popcorn and you are already on my shit list. I've stopped ordering from companies because of this. I no longer have patience for stupidity.

    2nd biggest pet peeve is companies using UPS bubble mailers as packing material inside the box. First of all it is illegal. Those shipping supplies are given free of charge with the intent of them being used for shipping out small packages. Not packing material. How unprofessional. Sorry guys, getting off topic.

  4. Likes dstryr, david n, allloutmx, Tonytn36, Mud and 1 others liked this post
  5. #43
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    We ordered a new 50 taper vmc and are getting a 40 taper vmc in the next few months and from all the positive reviews I am going to get maritool holders for them. Hopefully they will cut us a deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyjr View Post
    We ordered a new 50 taper vmc and are getting a 40 taper vmc in the next few months and from all the positive reviews I am going to get maritool holders for them. Hopefully they will cut us a deal.
    l

    It's already a deal.... Check his prices, then check with your other 3rd - 6th party vendors on the same quality holder...... Actually, just check them for inferior quality holders......

  7. #45
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    Recently i was looking for 1 mm ER25 collets in every caralog i have..
    Nada

    Than google told me maritool has it

    So i ordered a few.

    Envelope was kind of surprisse, never seen before
    Price was good too
    Will see how they perform


    What i did not like is collet packaging it was kind of hard to take off..used knife...

    Overall
    Interesting experience

  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    Tonytn36,

    Considering how many spindle hours and experience you guys have on BT30 equipment that says a lot. Thank you for your business.

    Sometimes I feel like a broken record because I keep on mentioning it, gage length is as important and sometimes more important than concentricity. Don't get me wrong, we dont skimp on concentricity. On the BT30-ER32-52 we constantly keep the OD taper to er socket ID to within 50 millionths TIR.
    Took me a while for that to sink into my thick skull, but I've got numbers to prove it without a doubt now. It is THE most important thing, especially on a 30 taper. Short, shorter and shortest. Now, if gauge length is over 60mm, I'm not buying it unless I'm doing some long-reach drilling or something where I have no choice. And don't think this just applies on just side milling, the application mentioned above is plunge milling where you would think with just an axial load it would be fine. IT ISN'T! That 40% increase is purely due to the holder, that is the only thing that changed, went from an 80 mm gauge length (Uber Chuck) to Mari 52 mm gauge length ER-32, same speed, same feed, same tool, same parts, same machine, same everything. And this data is consistent over 9 machines running high volume production.

    Frank, I know we have one order on the books right now (hopefully arriving Monday), probably be another soon as I still have several more of those Uber chucks to replace in other operations.

  9. Likes Bobw, wheelieking71 liked this post
  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonytn36 View Post
    Took me a while for that to sink into my thick skull, but I've got numbers to prove it without a doubt now. It is THE most important thing, especially on a 30 taper. Short, shorter and shortest. Now, if gauge length is over 60mm, I'm not buying it unless I'm doing some long-reach drilling or something where I have no choice. And don't think this just applies on just side milling, the application mentioned above is plunge milling where you would think with just an axial load it would be fine. IT ISN'T! That 40% increase is purely due to the holder, that is the only thing that changed, went from an 80 mm gauge length (Uber Chuck) to Mari 52 mm gauge length ER-32, same speed, same feed, same tool, same parts, same machine, same everything. And this data is consistent over 9 machines running high volume production.

    Frank, I know we have one order on the books right now (hopefully arriving Monday), probably be another soon as I still have several more of those Uber chucks to replace in other operations.
    I have yet to get our two 30 taper machines into production as I don't have enough work yet to justify building the heavily involved tooling required to make the parts they were intended to make. Separate story..... But I am reading this, and nodding my head... G/L is everything. I had an 11.75" facemill flipped upside down on an arbor, hanging out a mile as the arbor was a standard. Shortening that arbor by 1.5" getting a custom made a huge difference in tool life. Almost no difference in how much depth of cut you could take, and it still rang like the telephone in a telethon, but tool life was much better, pretty much double. Mind you this was on a 50 taper.... So, anyway I can see how small differences in G/L make a difference with these 30 taper holders.

    Frank, Is it possible to make a 3/4 x 1.2" endmill holder in dual contact? I would think there would be a market for insert mills or in my case cutting wood with long solid tools? Or can it not be done as you would have too much up in the taper?

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    MariTool for tool holders/pull studs and milling cutters
    I don't buy a lot of new, but when I do that's who I trust.
    I have one of his 3 flute roughers for alum that has run a job 4x more than what I was using in the past.
    Still cuts like it was new, giving near finish quality surface.
    And as minor as it may appear, the packaging (that includes a inch/metric/tap card) is a nice touch.


    Kurt vices still a good value

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    I've tooled up 3 new Brother machines, almost everything in there is Mari. Tool holders and end mills, including some specials. They are a solid company. It's pretty great to know you are going to get what you expect/hope to get when you order.

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    Hey Frank,

    You always say to keep the gauge length as short as possible for rigidity. Makes total sense, but is there a trade-off with cutting so close to the spindle nose?

    I've read enough threads about spindles dying prematurely, often due to coolant intake. In your experience, do short gauge length setups have a risk of getting coolant into the bearings?


    Getting 4x the tool life is great, but not if the spindle dies every 6 months. Is it a problem or at least a consideration in your expert opinion?

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    Never heard of such a thing. Thats why machines have Labrynth seals and air purges. Plus many applications where you are running balls out you are doing it dry or with air blast. Such as a variable flute endmills in steel or using a shell mill.

    If you are getting coolant in your spindle from a short tool holder you will still have the same problem with a 1" longer gage length.

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    I always hear about gage length, but I think there is another factor more important: drawbar force.
    I understand that with 30 taper machines, or low power 40 taper spindles, the gage length is crucial. But when you have a drawbar of 2,000 Lbs, or dual contact, I don't think is very relevant 60 mm VS 90 mm gage length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Default View Post
    ....I've read enough threads about spindles dying prematurely, often due to coolant intake. In your experience, do short gauge length setups have a risk of getting coolant into the bearings?
    It is extremely rare for a VMC to get coolant past the labyrinth seal at the spindle nose. HMCs have some trouble with this. Some builders put drain holes in the labyrinth seal. If they get plugged, then coolant can get past the labyrinth. Machines working in materials like cast iron get the drains plugged pretty quickly with sludge.

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    That's what I was hoping to hear. I second-guessed myself because someone I know insists on using ridiculously long tools and tool holders.

    So is it safe to say that when the spindle is hissing, coolant can't get in? Mainly concerned about using the stubbiest side lock holder with flood coolant and CTS when roughing slots and pockets in 6061. 40 horsepower cuts don't allow much visibility into the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    Don't friggin' do it........search those vises here on PM.........that price should tell you about their quality................few bucks more and you could go with some Kurt 3600's
    Actually.........
    My input on the vise front (from experience):
    When I bought my GMT 6" reverse premium vises, I paid $450ea. Almost 5 years later, they still function perfectly.
    You may find a tiny bit more quality in the screw, or bearings in a KURT? But, $450 for the GMT vs. $900 for the KURT? I would buy the GMT's again all day long!
    (and I did, I have 11 of them now)
    The problem is: GMT is up to $600 for that vise now! At that price? I would buy the KURT simply to NOT! give GMT any money (search, and you will find the reasons why).
    The point is: the GMT's are every bit as accurate as the KURT, and repeat just as well, in a mild production environment.
    And, yes, being in this trade over 20 years, I have used my fair share of KURTs.

    I also have several Orange vises. And, if we are being totally honest here, they are not without flaw either.
    Quality of the Orange is no better than any of the others.
    The Orange is made from better materials. But, if I was allowed to nit-pick them, I could go on for a while.
    Most of my complaints would center around internal threads.
    Except for the screw/nut assembly. The action of the Orange blows them all away. (I would love to try a Chick One-Lok)
    I am not bashing Orange. Mine are doing exactly what I needed them to do.
    I just find it funny that I have never seen a bad word about them. Yet, of my 10, there are several things I could complain about.

    My personal opinion is there is no reason to put a vise in a CNC that has a big ass flange running around the bottom of it.
    And, the "reverse premium" vises are a wonderful thing!
    If I was in the market for single station vises again, the KURT 3610 would be at the top of the list. Followed by Orange.

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