Long shot- Anyone run a real early Kitamura H300 Mycenter HMC?

Garwood · Aug 25, 2016

I bought one of these for spare control parts as part of a machinery package deal. It's from 1983!!! Has a Fanuc 6MB. Same exact main board as one of my other machines. I planned to scrap it out, but after looking it over and talking to the guys that ran it it's in surprisingly nice shape and they told me it has always been a very trouble free machine. It has a 10K BT30 spindle, full 4th capability, a pickup bedload of tooling, spare thrust bearings and maintenance parts, extra pallets and tombstones.

It's also real small in the world of HMC's, so not a big deal to set it up if I decided to keep it. It's 16"x16"x16" travels would be perfect for a lot of small parts I make.

Are these decent machines? Does the 10K BT30 spindle that age have any balls?

ewlsey · Aug 25, 2016

Does it have a real 4th axis? I saw an old ass HMC (not sure what brand but Japanese) once that did not have a real 4th. The rotary motion was done by engaging a rack and pinion and moving the Z axis. It was the most bizarre and poorly thought out machines I can remember.

Garwood · Aug 25, 2016

ewlsey said:
Does it have a real 4th axis? I saw an old ass HMC (not sure what brand but Japanese) once that did not have a real 4th. The rotary motion was done by engaging a rack and pinion and moving the Z axis. It was the most bizarre and poorly thought out machines I can remember.

It has a full 4th. 4 servo drives in the cabinet, jog and home buttons for 4th. 6MB can only do 2.5 axis simultaneous, but this machine does have the 4th as a true axis.

Garwood · Aug 25, 2016

It looks like this. The sides/doors are off in this picture.

Garwood · Aug 27, 2016

Nobody ever used one of these?

DavidScott · Aug 27, 2016

You talked with the guys that used it last, I would think their opinions should count pretty well. If it is in working order it shouldn't take too much work to get it going and see for yourself if it should have a home in your shop. You already know the shortcomings of the control. I would think it is a very well built machine but much depends on if it is tight enough for your needs. As for balls I know the spindle in my Kitamura BT30 drill/tap is quite impressive, especially with short projection tool holders. Just to confirm it is BT30 and not 35?

Garwood · Aug 27, 2016

DavidScott said:
You talked with the guys that used it last, I would think their opinions should count pretty well. If it is in working order it shouldn't take too much work to get it going and see for yourself if it should have a home in your shop. You already know the shortcomings of the control. I would think it is a very well built machine but much depends on if it is tight enough for your needs. As for balls I know the spindle in my Kitamura BT30 drill/tap is quite impressive, especially with short projection tool holders. Just to confirm it is BT30 and not 35?

The shop that had it used it for small counterbores, spotting, drilling and tapping little tool steel parts. Not much milling or taking advantage of the 10K RPM going on. It's definitely BT30.

I'll have maybe $600 in this thing sitting on my floor. I know the control well and it came with a boatload of toolholders, tombstones and small vises. I thought it was junk, but it was just a case of nobody else wanted it. I just bought it for the Fanuc 6 boards. Didn't realize what it was.

ewlsey · Aug 27, 2016

The one in the picture appears to have a 10M control.

The 6M is so limited. Lathes are simple and a 6T can do pretty much anything a new 2 axis lathe can do. A mill is a lot different. As far as I know the 6M cannot do rigid tapping. It will not have electronic spindle orientation. I don't think they can do helical interpolation. Forget any kind of high speed milling. You're talking maybe 16K memory. I don't know if they can drip feed, I think they can but it won't happen quickly.

Vancbiker · Aug 27, 2016

ewlsey said:
......The 6M is so limited. Lathes are simple and a 6T can do pretty much anything a new 2 axis lathe can do. A mill is a lot different. As far as I know the 6M cannot do rigid tapping. It will not have electronic spindle orientation. I don't think they can do helical interpolation. Forget any kind of high speed milling. You're talking maybe 16K memory. I don't know if they can drip feed, I think they can but it won't happen quickly.

Some of this depends on which 6M version. There were A, B, and B2 versions.

Rigid tapping: No
Electronic Orientation: Machine builder choice.
Helical: Yes, but a Fanuc option parameter. Possibly a B version option only. My info is not clear if available on A versions
High speed milling: No way!
Memory: 256K was available through Fanuc but crazy expensive. Tulip and Memex can go to 512K.
G54-G59 fixture offsets: Late A, B and B2 versions only. Early A versions not available and also might not even have a CRT.
Drip Feed: With a BTR all can. Since you can't contour fast anyway it usually keeps up.

DavidScott · Aug 27, 2016

A Tapmatic type tapping head will let it tap very fast. If the machine is good I would find a home for it in my shop, if I had room, for $600. I ran a 1984 Robodrill with a 3M and had few problems making small, intricate, parts with plenty of threaded holes holding tenths. No traditional fixture offsets but there are acceptable workarounds.

I would think it could drive a 1/2" mill through steel just fine, or a 2-1/2" face mill, if it's in decent condition. Don't let the BT30 taper scare you off. It's a Kitamura, if you haven't ran one before at least try it out. I'm tickled with mine.

How fast are it's rapids?

Garwood · Aug 28, 2016

ewlsey said:
The one in the picture appears to have a 10M control.

The 6M is so limited. Lathes are simple and a 6T can do pretty much anything a new 2 axis lathe can do. A mill is a lot different. As far as I know the 6M cannot do rigid tapping. It will not have electronic spindle orientation. I don't think they can do helical interpolation. Forget any kind of high speed milling. You're talking maybe 16K memory. I don't know if they can drip feed, I think they can but it won't happen quickly.

They're a pretty decent mill control. With all the machines you've had I'm surprised you haven't owned one. My Mori VMC W/6MB is limited to about 60 IPM for short 2.5 axis moves. It will start doing the "slow down and think" stuff at that point. for plain 2 axis stuff I feed at the max 140 IPM a lot and it doesn't miss a beat. That's not blazing fast, but fast enough for a lot of what I do.

That picture is just one I pulled off the internet, not the exact machine.

chino0k · Sep 25, 2016

Did you ever set this thing up? I've used old Kitamuras like this before and they are quality machines. If you havent set it up, do you want to sell it?

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Long shot- Anyone run a real early Kitamura H300 Mycenter HMC?

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