Machine hour cost in various countries.

What is the CNC 3-axis machining hourly cost in USA, European countries, Japan, and China?

From free to $500 per hour in the USA.
This question is to vague.

Needshave said:

From free to $500 per hour in the USA.
This question is to vague.

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I was going to say $30 to $300 / hr, but may as well be 'free to 500' as broad as that question is.

In the USA, a dollar per hour times the new machine cost in thousands is a decent rule of thumb. So a $60,000 machine would be running at $60 per hour, and a $450,000 machine would be running at $450 per hour.

Comatose said:

In the USA, a dollar per hour times the new machine cost in thousands is a decent rule of thumb. So a $60,000 machine would be running at $60 per hour, and a $450,000 machine would be running at $450 per hour.

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I'm doing something wrong then LOL

>.<

Comatose said:

In the USA, a dollar per hour times the new machine cost in thousands is a decent rule of thumb. So a $60,000 machine would be running at $60 per hour, and a $450,000 machine would be running at $450 per hour.

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My experience runs very, very, very different.

If there's a 3axis VMC running $450/hr shop rate (sustain-ably), I'd love to see it.

Can you think of a $450,000 three axis VMC?

That rule of thumb is out the window here. We have CNC cylindrical grinders that cost well over $1M, and we definitely don't get that much per hour for them.

Comatose said:

Can you think of a $450,000 three axis VMC?

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It's easy to get up there in price when you start adding bells and whistles, especially big tool mags, pallet changers, etc.

But if you expand it to 'machines' and not just 3a VMCs, then I've seen, worked with, and sub'd out to shops with 1/2-2mil machines and they certainly didn't set over $200/hr shop rate.

pawanmj said:

What is the CNC 3-axis machining hourly cost in USA, European countries, Japan, and China?

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What is the hourly cost in India?

Anyone charging $200/hour on a 2 million dollar machine is losing their ass. Maybe rapidly, maybe slowly.

At 60 hours of run time per week (two shifts, with setup, changover, PM, etc) that's about 3000 hours per year.

At a billable $200 per hour, that's a gross of $600,000 per year.

Subtract off two operators at $20/hour all up including taxes and benefits, you're down to $520/yr. Those are pretty cheap operators for a 2 million dollar machine.

Subtract off 500 square feet of space (the machine, inflow, outflow, aisles, stock) at $8 per square per year (including taxes) gets you down to $480/yr.

Subtract off a note at 7% gets you down to 340 per year.

Electric and utilities will get you down to $300k per year.

Your salesman will be looking at 10% of the 600k gross, so you're down to 240k.

Office and admin costs get you down to 200k.

So, assuming you can keep this machine fed pretty much constantly for two shifts, that's a ten year payback for the machine. Without the owner making a dime in return. A slowdown puts you in the bread lines.

I'd shoot for a two year payback to say a machine is a great investment. Five if it isn't specialized at all one could see.

Really expensive machines skew the numbers somewhat, as the cost of running the business operations becomes a smaller and smaller fraction. But for 3 axis work at a job shop, I stand by my number as a first order approximation.

If you like something more like $30 per hour plus half the new cost of the machine in thousands, that could be closer. That's make a $100,000 machine $80 per hour, a $200,000 machine $130 per hour and a $400,000 machine $230 per hour.

But every part and every shop is different. I assume OP is just looking for a ballpark number.

Just because a shop has a 2 million dollar machine doesn't mean the parts you subbed out to them were being run on it.

I have an $1,100 machine that bids out at $75per hour and I make perhaps $50per on a good day with shipping and the like..(that is my old Cici #2)Yes $500 a day is possible but doesn't happen often.
A million dollar machine running 10 years, two shifts might run 40,000 hr so cost $25 per hour just for the machine..,Likely bid out 75 to $150 IMHO.

Not exactly in line with your question, but I find that 80% of the shops around here (Philly area) will claim a certain machine rate, and charge something multitudes higher. A perfect example is a local laser shop I use. I believe the shop rate is publicly about $150 an hour. The actual rate is right around $800. I've known the owner for years, and he's a great guy. He knows that I know the real rate, but its a 2 year old, 1.5mil machine, and it cuts fast, so his prices are spot on. Same goes for waterjet guys I know. One particular copper job I know makes $5600 in 3 hours with twin heads, and it's an every-60-day type job.

Comatose said:

If you like something more like $30 per hour plus half the new cost of the machine in thousands, that could be closer. That's make a $100,000 machine $80 per hour, a $200,000 machine $130 per hour and a $400,000 machine $230 per hour.

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So a $500,000 tool and cutter grinder should bring in an average $250 per hour?
No way in hell, not happening anywhere on this planet.
Bob

We run the machines for what the market will bear and hope for the best in the end. Sometimes cheaper than I want to admit and sometimes more than I will admit to in public. Sometimes its more about knowing HOW to kick ass on a job in a not obvious manner that makes a decent job into a really good one.

JNieman said:

My experience runs very, very, very different.

If there's a 3axis VMC running $450/hr shop rate (sustain-ably), I'd love to see it.

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well.....when you originally quoted 16 hours for a job because it took that long, and now some years later it takes you 4 hours.........it happens.

lionelt said:

What is the hourly cost in India?

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I doubt that you will get a reply from him.

In India the price ranges from 400 Indian rupees (6.5 $/hr) to well about 5000 Indian rupees (75 $/hr). Yes, Broad range and depends on the type of work and who wants to get it done. Technical illiteracy is real high here. So chances are if you get a guy who does not know much on machining you can rake in the moolah!

I have heard about anecdotes that during the last downturn(2008-2009) people were ready to work for scrap that comes from machining the parts. Go figure...

Comatose said:

In the USA, a dollar per hour times the new machine cost in thousands is a decent rule of thumb. So a $60,000 machine would be running at $60 per hour, and a $450,000 machine would be running at $450 per hour.

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I have an old Hardinge HC that is maybe worth $750, so I should have been charging 75 cents an hour to tap 0-80 threads on it last week? I sure hope you aren't bidding work using that formula.

All of the replys are right .. it depends.

At 200$ an hour the 2M$ makes lots of money .. vs what comatose said.
Its an automated pallet pool horizontal, runs 23.5 hours per day = 1.6 M$.

Costs 100k$ in operators, == 1, most stuff runs hands/off.
Office etc is paid off the gross margin at 100k/yr.

Lifetime/depreciation/amortisation at 5 years = 400k, making about 1.1M$ - 0.2M (reserve) = 0.9M$/yr (gross) profit.

The above-mentioned horizontal is very profitable. Some are.
A(n unusually) large knee mill can be very profitable.

Any need a similar investment in ancillary or work/hours skill, either/and/or.
So a 2M machine needs a 2M shop to run well.
Conveyors, racks, stackers, packing, washing, tumbling, shipping, invoicing et al.

At 10k/month (very low) simple packing/shipping/stacking/shipping 500 / day is == price of 0.6M machine.

I know a place, very profitable, has 2 large VF9s, 3 m long bed, iirc, +/-.
Super happy.
Never need service (over 6 years).
Run flawless.
They use them to make holes, occasionally, small, at low speed, into their own tooling, they then harden and grind and finish (edm).

Then then stamp 2 million kgs of steel, per month, as their products, sold all over the world, 70% export.
2 guys work hard all day just making pallets to ship on. 70 guys total, +/-.
Really nice guy, sharp, manager.
Truly, he is a great guy.

First words were "I am SO happy to see You, and want to buy another machine like this".
Had never met him before. Ever.
True story.
He did buy it. 2011 or so.

Understandably, as the sales manager, I was inclined to be on his side and help him. Replaced an (older) chiron.
It´s a good strategy.
Worked really well for him.

As far as the rate in China I don't think there really is one. The last shop I was contracting at just ask the customer what the closest bid was then cut it by 10%. Apparently it worked because we had a new VF2-SS coming every three to four weeks.