Machining in Y-Z Plane alongwith Rotary Axis

Vishrut · Nov 8, 2016

Hi Guys,

We have an ongoing job, a trunnion. Attached drg & images. Highlighted Outer profile needs change in machining. Right now its being done conventionally -- roughing out with Indexable endmill; several passes and finishing with Solid Carbide Endmill.....Takes hell of a time.

I was thinking to change the method of machining this outer profile. If mounted onto 4th Axis Side-ways, I was wondering if we can machine it along Y-Z Plane with Y-Z and Rotary A-axis all working simultaneously. Have seen couple of videos doing the same.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Stock is not much and entire profile is easily doable with a 63mm Facemill that we have.

Tonytn36 · Nov 8, 2016

You can rough it like that, but you will need to finish it in X-Y plane. When you go around the end radius in Y-Z,A, the radius will be slightly concave along the X axis because of the arc of the cutter. Not an issue on the flats as long as you park the A axis and machine across with the Y axis.

Bobw · Nov 8, 2016

I've screwed myself several times trying to make things better/faster/easier.. And they end up being just more complicated..

That part SCREAMS, grab me in a vise, hog it, then flip it to finish...

If its taking too long now, screwin' around with a 4th axis isn't going to make it any faster..

I'd start with tooling and technique and speeds and feeds...

Beyond the tooling and techniques, the only real improvement I could see is running them in strips so that you can walk away for longer.

Jashley73 · Nov 8, 2016

You didn't list the quantities required, but if you have any volume on these at all, a couple thousand dollars in some nice tooling would make mince-meat of that part.

If you think you can't machine it quick now, how is a floppy right-angle head in your spindle, and a 4th axis going to make the metal-removal any faster? Put it in a vise, and get after it...

Atomkinder · Nov 8, 2016

Looks about 40mm tall? Ditch the indexable and go with a high quality solid carbide full depth with HSM toolpaths and that outer profile should be done in less than two minutes. What's the material?

Comatose · Nov 8, 2016

If there's volume there, what this screams for is a custom extrusion. $800, no roughing at all. Saw them a few thousandths thick, face, drill two holes and chamfer. Or if the tolerances are a little looser and the volumes a little bigger, $1200 would get it to you with both holes already in it. Saw to thickness, talk someone out of the chamfers and drop it straight into the tumbler.

Vishrut · Nov 8, 2016

Atomkinder said:
Looks about 40mm tall? Ditch the indexable and go with a high quality solid carbide full depth with HSM toolpaths and that outer profile should be done in less than two minutes. What's the material?

The Material is Grey Cast Iron SG 500/7 grade.

Vishrut · Nov 8, 2016

Comatose said:
If there's volume there, what this screams for is a custom extrusion. $800, no roughing at all. Saw them a few thousandths thick, face, drill two holes and chamfer. Or if the tolerances are a little looser and the volumes a little bigger, $1200 would get it to you with both holes already in it. Saw to thickness, talk someone out of the chamfers and drop it straight into the tumbler.

Can't do it as material is grey cast iron.

cameraman · Nov 8, 2016

Comatose said:
If there's volume there, what this screams for is a custom extrusion. $800, no roughing at all. Saw them a few thousandths thick, face, drill two holes and chamfer. Or if the tolerances are a little looser and the volumes a little bigger, $1200 would get it to you with both holes already in it. Saw to thickness, talk someone out of the chamfers and drop it straight into the tumbler.

OT / being selfish here... Can you really get a custom extrusion for $800? I've never considered that as I would assume that would cost minimally ten times as much?

Zahnrad Kopf · Nov 8, 2016

cameraman said:
OT / being selfish here... Can you really get a custom extrusion for $800? I've never considered that as I would assume that would cost minimally ten times as much?

I have worked on customer projects that they have gotten extrusions done for $1200.00, and commonly for $1500.00. One time minimum 2K lb. run added to the die charge. In the grand scheme of things, that is hard to beat.

Atomkinder · Nov 8, 2016

Vishrut said:
The Material is Grey Cast Iron SG 500/7 grade.

Yup, HSM will be your friend here. I've been running a variable flute AlTiN cutter about 500SFM (152 surface meters) at 2xDia and 10% stepover quite successfully in Dura-Bar ductile iron and that's going conservatively for that type of toolpath. With a little experimentation I imagine you can get far better results than just stepping down with an indexable.

Comatose · Nov 8, 2016

Yes! Well not in cast iron, obviously, but how amazingly cheap and accurate custom extrusions can be was one of my best discoveries ever.

We use PSI Industries, Inc. Custom Aluminum Extrusions out of Texas for thin wall and short run stuff. My last order was IIRC 1000 lb, and the per pound cost was something like $2.60 per pound plus about a thousand dollars for the die charge. Takes 8 weeks or so, that's the only real downside.

They'll do custom in runs down to 250lb, though last time I had a run that short it was almost $5 per pound. Still worth it.

cameraman · Nov 8, 2016

Comatose said:
Yes! Well not in cast iron, obviously, but how amazingly cheap and accurate custom extrusions can be was one of my best discoveries ever.

We use PSI Industries, Inc. Custom Aluminum Extrusions out of Texas for thin wall and short run stuff. My last order was IIRC 1000 lb, and the per pound cost was something like $2.60 per pound plus about a thousand dollars for the die charge. Takes 8 weeks or so, that's the only real downside.

They'll do custom in runs down to 250lb, though last time I had a run that short it was almost $5 per pound. Still worth it.

I appreciate that. Thanks also for clueing me in the minimum lot/order. I was thinking if I only have 600lbs of components/ potential extrusions what am I going to do with the remaining 1400 lbs ...? [Thanks for chiming in with alternate minimum strategies]. I'll check them out, that could potentially solve a LOT of problems. PSI looks great... as well as their related services. largest die plate about 5" in diameter and high precision extrusions as you say. [Sorry I don't want to de-rail the original topic but that is/was a super useful tip...(@Z-K thanks too :-) ) Will let you know if that all bears fruit].

:cheers:

Rstewart · Nov 8, 2016

Is the material in bars? If so, I would machine several pieces at a time with good workholding. GOOD tooling and the right strategy with knock those parts out in no time.
Whats you overall quantity?
If the material is already sawed, get two double vises and stack em up!

You don't need inserted tooling for that part....

Vishrut · Nov 8, 2016

Rstewart said:
Is the material in bars? If so, I would machine several pieces at a time with good workholding. GOOD tooling and the right strategy with knock those parts out in no time.
Whats you overall quantity?
If the material is already sawed, get two double vises and stack em up!

You don't need inserted tooling for that part....

Nope, casting is single pc. Have to machine individual pcs. 1500-2000 s month.

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Rstewart · Nov 9, 2016

You have these on a Horizontal right?

If not, that's what they need to be on at those quantities.

Vishrut · Nov 9, 2016

Rstewart said:
You have these on a Horizontal right?

If not, that's what they need to be on at those quantities.

Nope. On a vertical machining centre.

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Captdave · Nov 9, 2016

Comatose said:
Or if the tolerances are a little looser and the volumes a little bigger, $1200 would get it to you with both holes already in it.

We have custom extrusions for a couple of parts but none with holes in them just the basic profile shape, is that even possible?

Atomkinder · Nov 9, 2016

Can folks who want to talk about extrusions start another thread? Not really applicable to the OP's issue.

Vishrut said:
Nope. On a vertical machining centre.

What CAM are you using to program these? Again, HSM and solid carbide will be your friend here I think.

toolsteel · Nov 9, 2016

Not familiar with the material mentioned. Also not sure what equipment you have available to you. If I was making that part here I would get the material in bar form (if thats reasonable to do) throw it in one of out turn/mills. Machine the part, cut it off. Let it run minimally manned. I imagine some debur....c'sink....tumble sort of op would also be required.

Machining in Y-Z Plane alongwith Rotary Axis

Aluminum

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Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Aluminum

Stainless

Aluminum

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

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