Material Degradation Problem - What are you lining your parts catcher with?

Zahnrad Kopf · Oct 20, 2017

There is a piece of some kind of rubber or synthetic material lining the "floor" of our parts catcher in the turning center. Either time, our coolant ( QualiChem 271XC ), or the forces of nature are causing it to break down over time and while stable enough to leave alone, when one touches it ( either to clean the area of chip migration, or to retrieve a part ) it leaves a slimy black residue that takes a little effort to clean up. So, I'm looking for alternatives to it.

I thought about felt, but imagine that would be a nightmare with the chips. I thought about a new piece of rubber, but have to wonder how the coolant might attack it as well. So, I thought to ask here and see what others have done.

The pictures show what happens when it is DRY and one just barely touches it. When it is wet during operation, the black that transfers to one's hand or the parts is very slimy and thick.

DMF_TomB · Oct 20, 2017

Zahnrad Kopf said:
There is a piece of some kind of rubber or synthetic material lining the "floor" of our parts catcher in the turning center. Either time, our coolant, or the forces of nature are causing it to break down over time and while stable enough to leave alone, when one touches it ( either to clean the area of chip migration, or to retrieve a part ) it leaves a slimy black residue that takes a little effort to clean up. So, I'm looking for alternatives to it.

I thought about felt, but imagine that would be a nightmare with the chips. I thought about a new piece of rubber, but have to wonder how the coolant might attack it as well. So, I thought to ask here and see what others have done.

The pictures show what happens when it is DRY and one just barely touches it. When it is wet during operation, the black that transfers to one's hand or the parts is very slimy and thick.

.
i used to work on printing presses and often saw rubber break down in a few weeks. many chemicals will cause rubber to swell up bigger and distort like noodles.
.
rubber comes in many types and often is a mix of new and recycled so usually you never know exactly what rubber you got. epdm rubber which is usually better comes in peroxide cured and sulphur cured. just trying to get 100% peroxide cured is almost impossible. unless you put in special order for many tons the rubber you get is what ever they have available.
.
black stain, many rubbers have graphite or carbon mixed in. its to help keep from sticking when they make it. like flour on bread. unless you order special rubber without it it was always give a black stain.

WILLEO6709 · Oct 20, 2017

th parts catcher on the lb has more or less hard nylon in the pan in the machine, I added a real rubber flap to help bridge the gap between catch pan and the door opening, keps loosing small parts. The door catch tray has what appears to be real rubber as well. I don't know what coolant you run, but my guess is its a component of the coolant what you have does not like. I would try the hard plastic....

eta- how clean is your bar? tramp oil off the parts? some of that rust preventative is almost like tar.

Booze Daily · Oct 20, 2017

Piece of Scotchbrite here.

DMF_TomB · Oct 20, 2017

black from rubber is trying to get bread with no flour. its literally mixed in. some use something like silicone oil mixed in that leaves oil on everything instead of graphite
.
that can be a problem the oil instead of graphite

Milland · Oct 20, 2017

A sheet of medium hardness polyurethane, or if you can go harder UHMW polyethylene should hold up well. Heck, you could use a section of Teflon, that'll ding up but give more cushioning than UHMW, and won't be attacked by any coolant you're using.

Zahnrad Kopf · Oct 20, 2017

Answering previous questions -

Coolant is QualiChem 271XC. I love the stuff. I'm halfway sure that this is contributing to the issue as it seems to have a magical property of actually cleaning anything it comes in contact with. Sounds crazy and weird, but it really does. It also performs wonderfully with regard to surface finishes and tool life. So, for anyone coming along later, changing it is out of the question.

Bars are clean. I actually wipe everything down once it arrives simply as a matter of preference and safety while handling them.

Milland said:
A sheet of medium hardness polyurethane, or if you can go harder UHMW polyethylene should hold up well. Heck, you could use a section of Teflon, that'll ding up but give more cushioning than UHMW, and won't be attacked by any coolant you're using.

I am open to the idea, but part of the concern is that the surface is not flat all the way, throughout. It has a decided ramp/bend inside the machine. So whatever I use needs ideally be flexible.

One thing I had forgotten about is that a while back ( when we received the machine ) I repaired/replaced/added some material to the actual parts catcher part in effort to bridge a small gap that was there and letting small parts escape while being transported. I used cork back then and should have remembered that just now, but didn't.

I may try that for inside the receiving part of the bin and see what happens. I will wait and see if there are any more good responses and ideas before I do, though.

Thanks!

TeachMePlease · Oct 20, 2017

Problem solved.

cwtoyota · Oct 20, 2017

Try using PVC shower-pan liner. It comes in 40 mil thickness (0.040") in big rolls from the hardware store.
They also cans of sell shower-pan-liner adhesive.

It's not as compressible as rubber, and not as thick. In a parts catcher you might want 2 layers.

I made up a set of mud-flaps to keep the chips and coolant out of a few areas on a mill.
The PVC has held up over a year against Valcool 055b and now Trim e206 as well as Vactra No. 2 that drips off my Z-ways.

All of it is still 100% flexible and no cracks.

Mtndew · Oct 20, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.
i used to work on printing presses and often saw rubber break down in a few weeks. many chemicals will cause rubber to swell up bigger and distort like noodles.
.
rubber comes in many types and often is a mix of new and recycled so usually you never know exactly what rubber you got. epdm rubber which is usually better comes in peroxide cured and sulphur cured. just trying to get 100% peroxide cured is almost impossible. unless you put in special order for many tons the rubber you get is what ever they have available.
.
black stain, many rubbers have graphite or carbon mixed in. its to help keep from sticking when they make it. like flour on bread. unless you order special rubber without it it was always give a black stain.

Another useless post,you should change your name to Captain Obvious. :rolleyes5:

cameraman · Oct 20, 2017

TeachMePlease said:
Problem solved.

+1 in conservation/museum practice we use a similar stable + inert material called "Plastazote*"...

It might get a bit nicked and shredded but otherwise clean stable and inert. Cheap to replace. (As you will see has a ton of industrial applications).

PLASTAZOTE - Zotefoams

Our products - Zotefoams

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*No affiliation.

cameraman · Oct 20, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.
i used to work on printing presses and often saw rubber break down in a few weeks. many chemicals will cause rubber to swell up bigger and distort like noodles.
.
rubber comes in many types and often is a mix of new and recycled so usually you never know exactly what rubber you got. epdm rubber which is usually better comes in peroxide cured and sulphur cured. just trying to get 100% peroxide cured is almost impossible. unless you put in special order for many tons the rubber you get is what ever they have available.
.
black stain, many rubbers have graphite or carbon mixed in. its to help keep from sticking when they make it. like flour on bread. unless you order special rubber without it it was always give a black stain.

@DMF_TomB

I used to get peroxide cured vulcanazates from BFGoodrich/ Goodyear blimp guys (compounding labs) in Akron Ohio (long time ago). Just make sure the peroxide cure you order is not pyrollic! :-)

I have to admit that would be a nice clean material to bounce parts off, but not anywhere near as stable as Plastizote, closed cell type polyethylene foam.

chip_maker · Oct 20, 2017

Kinda pricey, but you can buy sheets of Viton from Mcmaster. That stuff is pretty chemical resistant and will hold up. I made new door and z axis wipers for 1 of my lathes out of it 4+ years ago, and they're still mint.

McMaster-Carr

Dan from Oakland · Oct 20, 2017

Looks to me like what you have in there now is just a hunk of sheet neoprene. No need to get real fancy with some foam etc. Try putting a pad or two of good old scotchbrite in there, or some furnace filter material- I buy the filter material at the local Ace Hardware by the foot off of a 3' wide roll- it looks like scotchbrite with out the abrasive. We use it in our coolant tank on the mills when we are machining plastic to keep the fines out of the tank.

cameraman · Oct 20, 2017

chip_maker said:
Kinda pricey, but you can buy sheets of Viton from Mcmaster. That stuff is pretty chemical resistant and will hold up. I made new door and z axis wipers for 1 of my lathes out of it 4+ years ago, and they're still mint.

McMaster-Carr

That stuff should be chemically very inert... (I'm surprised that class of chemicals is not still outlawed) lol... It never ceases to amaze me what you can get from McMaster-Carr they have gotten me through some badly needed quick fixes and solutions in the past... Love it!

Hazzert · Oct 20, 2017

A thin sheet of PTFE (telfon)would tick about every box needed: chemically inert, soft/flexible, inexpensive. UMHW sheet would also work similarly.

Milland · Oct 20, 2017

Hazzert said:
A thin sheet of PTFE (telfon)would tick about every box needed: chemically inert, soft/flexible, inexpensive. UMHW sheet would also work similarly.

Great (feeble?) minds think alike (post #6).

Hazzert · Oct 20, 2017

Damn, and I read the thread too, my eyes must have glazed over! Serves me right for eating lunch and PMing at the same time.

Limy Sami · Oct 20, 2017

Bit of Astroturf - lets any coolant drain through as well.

Milland · Oct 20, 2017

Hazzert said:
Damn, and I read the thread too, my eyes must have glazed over! Serves me right for eating lunch and PMing at the same time.

It coulda' been worse - you could have been eating lunch and BMing at the same time (eww).

Material Degradation Problem - What are you lining your parts catcher with?

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