Matsuura pallet macro number?

Unahorn · Feb 11, 2018

I have dug through the books and had no luck.

Does anyone know on a matsuura hplus300 horizontal, if there is any macro variable in the control that can tell me which pallet is in the machine.

Trying to write a macro and really could use to know which pallet is in the machine. This is for a pc15 and a FMS pc24 machines.

Thank you

sinha · Feb 12, 2018

May ask MTB.

bassbrawls · Feb 13, 2018

Have you called Selway? Surely their Application Engineers would know this.

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB · Jun 21, 2022

@Unahorn
did you ever get this figured out?

Milling man · Jun 21, 2022

Unahorn said:
I have dug through the books and had no luck.

Does anyone know on a matsuura hplus300 horizontal, if there is any macro variable in the control that can tell me which pallet is in the machine.

Trying to write a macro and really could use to know which pallet is in the machine. This is for a pc15 and a FMS pc24 machines.

Thank you

It may very well be that the ladder checks the physical position of the pallet changer, and thus understands which pallet is currently in the machine.

LockNut · Jun 23, 2022

If this is a Fanuc, you might try using system variable #1008 and #1009. Either of those should be a one depending on which pallet is in the working area. Also, inputs UI1008 and UI 1009. I wrote the below a while back. If these don't work, you should be able to find them in the ladder.

Good day. I was given the task of finding a solution to your pallet check problem. I think I found something that will work for you. Keep in mind that I checked this on one of our showroom machines and it is a horizontal. So, the macro variables may be off by one or two digits but that can be fixed after you see what this will do. They may very well be the same but we will check. You will need to look in your ladder and check for 2 inputs. Can you do this? If not, call me and I will walk you through it. Basically, you will look for inputs named UI1008 and UI1009. They set pallets 1 and 2 depending on which pallet is in position. They also set macro variables #1008 and #1009. The change to your programs will constitute checking these 2 variables for their proper states. I have made changes to the following program to highlight this.

%
O4050
G20
G0G17G40G49G80G90
T1M6
IF[#1009EQ1]GOTO100 (FOR PALLET 1 CHECK, IF 1, CONTINUE WITH PROGRAM)
IF[#1009EQ0]GOTO900 (FOR PALLET 1 CHECK, IF 0, GO TO ALARM AT END OF PROGRAM)
N100
G0G90G54X3.198Y-2.9025S5093M3
T2
G5.1Q0
G43H1Z2.
Z1.
G1Z.399F20.

BODY OF PROGRAM

G1 X3.198
Z1. F50.
G0 Z2.
M5
G91 G28 Z0.
G28 X0. Y0.
N900
#3000=1(WRONG PALLET LOADED) PROGRAM JUMPS TO HERE IF WRONG PALLET
M30
%

#1009 will be changed to #1008 to check pallet #2. This bit of code will go into the portion of your program that runs pallet #2. This can be used once per program or once per tool, however you feel you need to check this.

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB · Jun 23, 2022

@LockNut, what machine and control did you try this on?

LockNut · Jun 23, 2022

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB said:
@LockNut, what machine and control did you try this on?

Fanuc 31i.

angelw · Jun 23, 2022

LockNut said:
Fanuc 31i.

The Fanuc Control has little to do with whether a System Variable is supplied to identify the current pallet; that is entirely up to the MTB.

Following are two Macro Programs that were used on a Kitamura Horizontal, where the only normal "M" code for pallet change was M60, which would merely swap the pallets irrespective of what number was active. Each Macro Program was called with either M61 or M62 registered as a Cuctom "M" Code. The actual active number of the pallet (61 or 62) is stored in Nonvolatile Macro Variable #520. The reference to the Pallet Changer being disabled was related to a fixture that wouldn't fit through the Pallet Change Door and therefore, when in use, a flag was set in Macro Variable #500 to prevent a pallet change happening.

O9003(AUTO*PALLET*M61)
(PROGRAM CALL M61)
M11
IF[#500EQ1]GOTO5555
IF[#520EQ61]GOTO1
G91G28X0Y0Z0B0
G30X0.0Z0
M60
#520=61
G90
N1M99
N5555
#3000=1(PALLET CHANGER DISABLED)

O9004(AUTO*PALLET*M62)
(PROGRAM CALL M62)
M11
IF[#500EQ1]GOTO5555
IF[#520EQ62]GOTO1
G91G28X0Y0Z0B0M09
G30X0.0Z0.0
M60
#520=62
G90
N1M99
N5555
#3000=1(PALLET CHANGER DISABLED)

[B]@ BRADATNORTHWES[/B]

There would normally be a proximity switch to confirm that the Pallet was in place. You could determine if only the one switch was used for both Pallets, or one for each by testing with the following:

1. Swap a Pallet into the Machine

2. Execute #1 = #1032 and note the number in Variable #1

3. Swap another Pallet into the Machine and repeat step 2

4. If there is a difference in the number recorded in #1, then there is a User Input provided that is different for each Pallet and from this you can determine the Input and use it to identify the current Pallet.

Regards,

Bill

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB · Jun 23, 2022

angelw said:
The Fanuc Control has little to do with whether a System Variable is supplied to identify the current pallet; that is entirely up to the MTB.

Following are two Macro Programs that were used on a Kitamura Horizontal, where the only normal "M" code for pallet change was M60, which would merely swap the pallets irrespective of what number was active. Each Macro Program was called with either M61 or M62 registered as a Cuctom "M" Code. The actual active number of the pallet (61 or 62) is stored in Nonvolatile Macro Variable #520. The reference to the Pallet Changer being disabled was related to a fixture that wouldn't fit through the Pallet Change Door and therefore, when in use, a flag was set in Macro Variable #500 to prevent a pallet change happening.

O9003(AUTO*PALLET*M61)
(PROGRAM CALL M61)
M11
IF[#500EQ1]GOTO5555
IF[#520EQ61]GOTO1
G91G28X0Y0Z0B0
G30X0.0Z0
M60
#520=61
G90
N1M99
N5555
#3000=1(PALLET CHANGER DISABLED)

O9004(AUTO*PALLET*M62)
(PROGRAM CALL M62)
M11
IF[#500EQ1]GOTO5555
IF[#520EQ62]GOTO1
G91G28X0Y0Z0B0M09
G30X0.0Z0.0
M60
#520=62
G90
N1M99
N5555
#3000=1(PALLET CHANGER DISABLED)

[B]@ BRADATNORTHWES[/B]
There would normally be a proximity switch to confirm that the Pallet was in place. You could determine if only the one switch was used for both Pallets, or one for each by testing with the following:

1. Swap a Pallet into the Machine

2. Execute #1 = #1032 and note the number in Variable #1

3. Swap another Pallet into the Machine and repeat step 2

4. If there is a difference in the number recorded in #1, then there is a User Input provided that is different for each Pallet and from this you can determine the Input and use it to identify the current Pallet.

Regards,

Bill

After a bunch of conversations with some application engineers with the company, we determined that the machine I am looking to use this function with does not support a macro variable identifying the pallet number. It is all done by the ladder.

angelw · Jun 23, 2022

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB said:
After a bunch of conversations with some application engineers with the company, we determined that the machine I am looking to use this function with does not support a macro variable identifying the pallet number. It is all done by the ladder.

That is quite common and as I stated in my previous Post, its up to the MTB, not Fanuc (if yours is a Fanuc Control) as to whether a System Variable is provided for the purpose of identifying the current Pallet.

The Macro Program method shown used with the Kitamura in my previous Post could be used by modifying the programs to suit your needs.

Regards,

Bill

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB · Jun 23, 2022

Thanks for clearing this up Bill!

-Brad

Milling man · Jun 24, 2022

I can offer another option.
The ladder most likely has pallet changer sensor inputs that indicate that the pallet changer is in some end position. You can add a line to the ladder that assigns the value of the corresponding input X to variable #1030 or so (I don't remember the exact number of variables to communicate with the ladder, you need to look at the documentation). Then you will be able to check the value of this variable in your program and then perform some actions depending on the value of the variable.

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB · Jul 3, 2023

almost a year later and I am revisiting this on a more serious note.
Dynamics within the company have changed and I am now able to invest some time learning how to do this.

@Milling man, do you have any suggestions as to where i can learn to modify ladder diagrams? or any reference materials?

angelw · Jul 3, 2023

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB said:
almost a year later and I am revisiting this on a more serious note.
Dynamics within the company have changed and I am now able to invest some time learning how to do this.

How many Pallets does the machine have?
With regards to Milling Man's solution, if a System Variable has not already been supplied by the MTB, its unlikely that the hardware (proximity switch) will have been supplied to provide an input to the PLC. There will most likely be a Prox to confirm that a pallet is in position and clamped, but that switch will be common to all pallets. Accordingly, you will have to install at least one proximity switch to identify a unique feature of at least one pallet. The logic being that if the input is high, then pallet 1 for example is in place and when low, pallet 2 is in place. It would be better if one proximity per pallet is used, but that is mainly only practical in the machine itself if there are only a couple of pallets, as I suspect your machine is. A machine with a Multiple Pallet Pool would normally come equipped with the means of identifying the pallet being used.

If the machine does have a Multiple Pallet Pool, its common to have the Pallet in action identified at the Pallet Pool and confirmed that a Pallet is in place in the machine by prox switches in the machine.

Regards,

Bill

Milling man · Jul 3, 2023

angelw said:
With regards to Milling Man's solution, if a System Variable has not already been supplied by the MTB, its unlikely that the hardware (proximity switch) will have been supplied to provide an input to the PLC.

Nearly every 2-pallet machine I dug into had some kind of sensor that told the pallet changer the direction of travel. Like "you're already on the right, turn left" or "you're already on the left, turn right."
I don't see any problem adding a line to the ladder that has some "X of this sensor right/left" on the left and G54.0 (#1000 in the G-code) on the right.

BRADATNORTHWESTFAB said:
@Milling man, do you have any suggestions as to where i can learn to modify ladder diagrams? or any reference materials?

What exactly do you want to learn? Typically, CNC vendors such as Fanuc run programming courses. Including the ladder.

angelw · Jul 4, 2023

Milling man said:
Nearly every 2-pallet machine I dug into had some kind of sensor that told the pallet changer the direction of travel. Like "you're already on the right, turn left" or "you're already on the left, turn right."
I don't see any problem adding a line to the ladder that has some "X of this sensor right/left" on the left and G54.0 (#1000 in the G-code) on the right.

Likewise, this is far from my first rodeo dealing with machines that have two pallets. Many of these machines have side mounted pallet loaders and each pallet is orientated in the same way and fed in, in the same direction, the Kitamura Horizontal I referred to in Post #9 is one such example. This machine only had a proximity switch to confirm the pallet being correctly in place and no other reference to identifying the pallet number.

The Pallet Change Macro Program I listed in Post #9 was a successful way of keeping track of the Pallet Number in action and could only be faulted if a manual Pallet Change was executed, where the Non-volatile Macro Variable recording the Pallet Number is not updated.

Milling man · Jul 4, 2023

@angelw Of course you're right. It is necessary to consider a specific machine and decide what can be used in this.
In the opening post of this topic, it was about a machine with a mountain of pallets, 100% in such a machine there are variables indicating the number of the pallet in the working area.

Vancbiker · Jul 4, 2023

Milling man said:
@angelw ……..100% in such a machine there are variables indicating the number of the pallet in the working area.

There is certainly some addresses in the PMC Data or Counter fields for tracking what pallet is in the machine. That is no guarantee that the builder also wrote into the ladder a rung or two to transfer that data to a system variable.

Modifying the ladder to do that is often beyond the ability of the control or the user.

Milling man · Jul 4, 2023

Vancbiker said:
There is certainly some addresses in the PMC Data or Counter fields for tracking what pallet is in the machine.

Vancbiker said:
Modifying the ladder to do that is often beyond the ability of the control or the user.

Even on my old Fanuc (18i-A) this is not a problem. As far as I know, Matsuura's CNC is very similar to Fanuc.

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