Mazak vs Okuma opinions needed

captivereef · Feb 22, 2018

I have to buy a new machine for machining some smaller 6-12" dia hardened ni hard castings which are around 55rc. Nothing fancy just milling some ID and OD

currently running them on my dynapath with no issue other then slow tool change and rapid speed.

I've narrowed my choices down to a mazak VC-500C and a okuma GENOS 560

Any input on either of these machines, im a die maker not a CNC machinist but landed this job.

I'm liking the mazak because I can get a front load pallet changer and machine for $135,000

not sure how I like the cutter moving as opposed to the table though

okuma is gonna run me $99,000 no pallet changer

don't necessarily need the pallet changer but it will help reduce part Change time

my biggest concern is rigidity and dependability.

not sure what machine to go with any input is appreciated

ewlsey · Feb 22, 2018

How the service and support in your area. I worked in a shop full of Okuma. They wouldn't even consider a Mazak because service is pretty bad in our area.

captivereef · Feb 22, 2018

service is great for both, im right over the border from Illinois in Wisconsin so no service issues at all.

litlerob1 · Feb 22, 2018

IMHO, the Iron is very similar quality, the Machinery is very comparable in quality overall. The controls are different though. OSP is head and shoulders better than everything else out there, but not as common as the Mazak Mitsu interface.

R

Speedie · Feb 22, 2018

Always get the pallet changer.....money is no object

Comatose · Feb 22, 2018

That's a really good price for the Okuma. Did you take everything off? (Probes, conveyor, through spindle coolant, etc)

A pallet changer saves a lot of time if you're running in production. More than you'd expect. If it is a short running part, the machine isn't down while your operator takes a dump and a smoke break. If it is a long running part, you can load it two tables worth instead of one when you go home.

On the other hand, a pallet changer has twice the fixturings costs, and is harder to set up, so doesn't make sense for onesies-twosies.

If they're currently running on a dynapath, are you sure you need a new machine? How solid is your contract?

Mtndew · Feb 22, 2018

The Genos M560 iron is very solid. It's a gantry style machine,and lots of HP at you disposal, and it has a dual contact spindle as a standard.
I have no experience with Mazak, but we have 3 of those Okuma mills. Will buy more.

XD341 · Feb 22, 2018

The dual column design of the Okuma is very rigid. The control is the fastest thing out there, and they are very dependable. That is a smoking price by the way. I can't say enough good things about the 560 but Mazak is good stuff too. Specifically for hard machining I'd go Okuma. I'm not sure whats out there in the way of pallet changer options for the 560 but you have some room in the budget compared to the mazak.

Mooner · Feb 22, 2018

XD341 said:
... I'm not sure whats out there in the way of pallet changer options for the 560 but you have some room in the budget compared to the mazak.

Midaco makes aftermarket pallet changers for the M560. Here's a video (the video shows the M460).
MIDACO A3�18SD Pallet Changer on Okuma M46�-VE - YouTube

I think it is expensive... I was given a ballpark of < $50k. No further details...

+1 for the Okuma - I have an M560 and love it. Being a former IT guy, I made my decision based mostly on the control...

2 additional things to consider:
- If you're hard machining, rigidity is probably your biggest friend... No experience with the Mazak myself, but I suspect the dual-column Okuma design and no Y-axis movement in the head is probably more rigid...

- I'm guessing hard machining Ni castings will lead to long cycle times. If that's true, the machine will spend far longer cutting than you will spend changing parts. So the pallet changer, while it would certainly help, will make much less of a difference than if you had shorter cycle times.

SND · Feb 22, 2018

Hard to keep track of mazak's models lately, but isn't the VC-500C a new cheaper model with most basic control, not like the VCN which I think if their more common higher end one and probably beefier?

That Okuma genos M560 sure looks like a tough one to beat, mostly at those prices.

XD341 · Feb 22, 2018

Mooner said:
Midaco makes aftermarket pallet changers for the M560. Here's a video (the video shows the M460).
MIDACO A3�18SD Pallet Changer on Okuma M46�-VE - YouTube

I think it is expensive... I was given a ballpark of < $50k. No further details...

+1 for the Okuma - I have an M560 and love it. Being a former IT guy, I made my decision based mostly on the control...

2 additional things to consider:
- If you're hard machining, rigidity is probably your biggest friend... No experience with the Mazak myself, but I suspect the dual-column Okuma design and no Y-axis movement in the head is probably more rigid...

- I'm guessing hard machining Ni castings will lead to long cycle times. If that's true, the machine will spend far longer cutting than you will spend changing parts. So the pallet changer, while it would certainly help, will make much less of a difference than if you had shorter cycle times.

oh wow, that helps get this vertical that's built like a horizontal pretty close to horizontal productivity. That's awesome.

Vancbiker · Feb 22, 2018

I've never been impressed with Mazaks, but have been around many excellent Okumas. No contest IMO.

captivereef · Feb 22, 2018

the okuma is a 2017 model clearance. really leaning towards the okuma

captivereef · Feb 22, 2018

Comatose said:
That's a really good price for the Okuma. Did you take everything off? (Probes, conveyor, through spindle coolant, etc)

A pallet changer saves a lot of time if you're running in production. More than you'd expect. If it is a short running part, the machine isn't down while your operator takes a dump and a smoke break. If it is a long running part, you can load it two tables worth instead of one when you go home.

On the other hand, a pallet changer has twice the fixturings costs, and is harder to set up, so doesn't make sense for onesies-twosies.

If they're currently running on a dynapath, are you sure you need a new machine? How solid is your contract?

my dynapath was bought new in 2011 good machine but slow tool change time. 31 seconds chip to chip and 100 Ipm rapid time just isn't doing it. it's a toolroom machine and I love it for that but it's slow

Speedie · Feb 22, 2018

50 Grand for a pallet changer based in round rod technology. whaaa whaaa whaaaaaa???

SND · Feb 23, 2018

Instead of looking at adding a pallet changer(if you really need it/ROI), might worth checking how much more $ those Kitamura's sparkchanger APC/twin table machines are. Makino makes one too(that one the table might be too small), and hyundai-wia.
That said... if Qty is high enough to justify those or a pallet changer, then maybe 2 machines like those M560 near each other and 2 spindles going ain't all that much more $ either and definitely get more spindle time... I know if I had to look at $50k for pallet changer, vs putting an extra 50k for another whole machine that makes $, that ain't too hard to figure out if there's shop space.

captivereef · Feb 23, 2018

settled on the okuma Genos M560-V for $99,000. just have to buy new big plus tool holders. a little bit bigger then I wanted but for the price i can't pass it up

Mooner · Feb 23, 2018

captivereef said:
... just have to buy new big plus tool holders...

Pretty sure you won’t regret it...

You can use standard CAT40 tool holders, doesn’t require Big+... But there has been some pretty lively debate here if it is ok to switch between BigPlus and non-BigPlus holders in the same spindle... But since you’re machining hard materials, you’ll probably benefit from it...

DarrenB · Feb 24, 2018

Do you have a CAD/CAM program or would you be using the machine controls? If your machining needs are "nothing fancy" as you say, I prefer the Mazatrol controls over any other conversational control I have come across so far. (Could be because this is the control I first learned to use :p) I find the Okuma a little tedious at the beginning, with all their vague alarms. However, after running Mazaks and Okumas at length, I can tell you both are excellent choices. Every one I've operated have performed exceptionally, but I definitely prefer Mazak for their ease of operation.
Good Luck

litlerob1 · Feb 25, 2018

DarrenB said:
Do you have a CAD/CAM program or would you be using the machine controls? If your machining needs are "nothing fancy" as you say, I prefer the Mazatrol controls over any other conversational control I have come across so far. (Could be because this is the control I first learned to use :p) I find the Okuma a little tedious at the beginning, with all their vague alarms. However, after running Mazaks and Okumas at length, I can tell you both are excellent choices. Every one I've operated have performed exceptionally, but I definitely prefer Mazak for their ease of operation.
Good Luck

You use Mazatrol for Milling???!!! I knew a square guy once who messed with Mazatrol (after the Turning guy said Mazatrol everything!! when asked) and the square guy said it was about as cumbersome as slicing bread with a putty knife.

R

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