Need an Education on Bar Feeders

SIM · Aug 16, 2004

We are looking into a Haas SL-10 Lathe for some larger runs. We believe a bar feeder would be the way to go. Until now I have been using Bar Pullers which were fine, but now with longer runs I think using the full lenght would be beneficial.

Question, Haas makes a feeder @ $12,000.00 but can anyone tell me about other makes and models that may work better, less $$$. I really would like something relatively simple for single bars, yet it needs to adapt from small diameters to 1-3/4". I thought I had seen a single Bar pusher somplace awhile back that ran about $3,000.00 and was rated at 4000rpm.

Anyhepl would be appriaciated. Used is also an option.

Ox · Aug 16, 2004

The Haas unit is a magazine style for short bars isn't it? I don't think you are going to gain any material usage compared to pulling.

If you want a single 12 footer - just go to E-bay and type in LNS. You can get a 12' gattling Gun style for that $ any day of the week.

I have never used that style, but I think they live forever with very little mantainence.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SIM · Aug 16, 2004

I not truely concerned about materail usage, it is more of a concern about the higher RPM's and vibration. Program complexity and possibility of collisions.

The Bar puller is nice but tends to make the program a tad awkward. I intend to have others do the programming so I would like to keep as simple as possible. The Haas seems quite simple, just tell the machine how many parts you want, how far each pcs should move out within =/-.005 and no turret stop,the info is entered at the control.

How does the LNS work? Does it have air pressure or hydraulics behind it to push? Is it a constant force or does it get actvated by a M switch? Never looked into one?

Haas gave me a return E-mail they will have a Pneumatic pusher out in about 90 days, priced at about $3500.

JRIowa · Aug 16, 2004

If you're going to run the same diameter stock all of the time, an LNS hydrobar will work great at that rpm. If you plan on running different diameters, you either have to get liners of go to a "SuperHydrobar".

www.lnsamerica.com

Just my $.02

JR

Mark McGrath · Aug 16, 2004

LNS is a good barfeed.We run Sameca`s.Very quick to change bar size.I have paid about an average of $300 each for all our barfeeds mostly on Ebay.
When using a barfeed you programme the stop to come up nearly to the end of the bar before opening the chuck/collet and then feed back to your size otherwise the stop/turret gets thumped when the chuck opens.
I don`t like pneumatic barfeeds for higher speeds,the oil fed ones are quiet up to quite high revs but you have to bolt the machine down and take a bit of care lining the barfeed up to the spindle.
If buying a secondhand barfeed make sure there are a range of tubes/liners with it as they can be expensive on there own.
regards,Mark.

metlmunchr · Aug 16, 2004

Spego also has a good reputation in bar feeds, all designed and built in the US.

SIM · Aug 16, 2004

Mark can you explain the feed and stop of the barfeed a little bit differently, I must be dense as I don't quite get what you mean.

Is the bar feed an actual feed as you can program a lenght to feed or is it constant pressure to feed whrn the chuck or collet is opened?

Thanks Carl

Dave K · Aug 16, 2004

I own an SL-10 by Haas. I seem to remember my salesman telling me that Haas makes a single bar feeder for about $3000.00. I think there was a limit on it like maybe it only took 6 foot bars or something. I could be wrong about that as I am just going off memory.

damonfg · Aug 16, 2004

Carl,
much easier, smoother, and more accurate to "feed" by using the turret or toolpost.

Part finishes, gets cut off.
Turret indexes to a stock stop,
turret moves up to the remaining stock, maybe 0.020" gap or so,
collet is opened,
barfeed pushes stock into the stop on the turret,
turret moves back a controlled distance,
collet closes,
barfeed stops pushing,
and there you go ready to cut the next part.

Ferrous Antiquos · Aug 16, 2004

Sim,

I have a good article at work from one of the trade mags regarding bar feed selection. I'll be happy to fax it on Tuesday if you give me your fax # tonight.

So far no one has mentioned workholding as it relates to barfeeders. A collet chuck is by far preferable to a jaw chuck in this case. Within collet systems, there are two basic types of clamping motion: pull-back and dead-length. In the first type the collet is directly coupled to the drawtube, and it will move (misposition) the bar when the chuck is actuated.

The dead-length type generally has the collet fixed to the chuck body, or pushing against a positive stop cap on the chuck face (collet nose). Most of these types are push-to-close, or drawtube forward = collet clamp. They work especially well with a turret stop, as you can position the turret exactly where you want the bar fed out, and it wil clamp it there without any appreciable movement. Without the turret stop, the push-to-close type can sometimes drag the bar further out than intended, especially if it is the new servo-type barfeeds for short bars. This is never a problem with the hydrostatic long bar types, however.

D. Thomas · Aug 17, 2004

For what it's worth, I have two LNS 6 tube Super Hydrobar bar feeders for sale....and an SMW all servo magazine type.

SIM · Aug 17, 2004

Hey, maybe we can do some business. I'm not sure it is the way we are going but if you e-mail me the particuliars I will definitely take a look and discuss with all concerned in this matter (actually just my partner I call him,..Dad )

Now I pretty much get it, runs like our W&S #4 Turret Lathe with Bar Feeder except automatic. You can open the collet and keep the stop out in no mans land, then watch the material build up some momentum and ram the stop, or you can bring the stop up to the collet release and bring back to position then lock. Got it, I think.

Thought it was going to be more complex. Last question then, what is the LCD screens and buttons for? To calibrate pressure, adjust height? Is this only on the servo feeders? Do they get wired to the machine in anyway, besides the servo feeders which I am guessing run off an M switch.

Thanks, its a whole lot easier to get info here. You get the ups downs and possible purchase leads. Nice!!

Hope to return the favor.

metlmunchr · Aug 17, 2004

As Ferrous said, a dead length collet chuck is ideal for bar fed work. Another thing that will work without pullback if you do a combination of chuck and bar work is to build a set of soft jaws for the chuck that will accept W&S collet pads. By machining the jaws such that the chuck master jaws stay near the limit of outward travel you can approximate the "just enough to clear" opening of a collet chuck, and changeover to chuck work stays quick and simple.

SIM · Aug 17, 2004

Thanks for the fax, quite informative.

We will keep you guys in mind next time ordering collets.
Carl

MBensema · Aug 17, 2004

SIM, FMB Machinery is close to you in NJ and might have what you need.

http://www.fmb-machinery.com/start_index_eng.htm

Ox · Aug 17, 2004

I've had dead length chucks.....
.
.
.
.
.
........And replaced them with pull-backs. I only recommend them for jobs where they are actually needed, and a two axis lathe [by design] can't run those kind of jobs.

The chuck jaws that will accomidate S series pads look like a very good investment for someone that uses a chuck on other jobs.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

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