In need of help and opinions!!!!!!

KENMASTERS · Aug 19, 2015

Long story short company A whom I work for bought a new mazak vmc to keep up with production as buisness has increased. company B a few streets over who has been outsorsing
their production parts, sees company A's shiny new machine and ask's me my opinion and posibly help on getting them started and buys 2 new machines ( mazak vms smart and mazak turning center with live tooling smart) then later hire a new guy who knows mazatrol (whitch I do not exept simple things like hole patterns ) so I am unable to help. 3 months later and a few crashes later el new guy is finaly fired for not producing good parts. they hire second guy who has got 30yrs experiance and bla bla bla. first part on lathe he crashes costing company 12k or so then he fails to make acceptable part a few weeks after that and he is gone. now they are turing to me asking if i know some-one or can help.
I am not familiar with the turning center ( mazak) and am struggling to learn HSMWORKS LATHE. SO I WOULD HAVE TO LEARN 2 THINGS TO HELP MAZAK LATHE AND HSMWORKS LATHE.
Company is in se florida. Anyone know someone who can get them going or suggestions?????
thanks in advance

DMF_TomB · Aug 19, 2015

KENMASTERS said:
Long story short company A whom I work for bought a new mazak vmc to keep up with production as buisness has increased. company B a few streets over who has been outsorsing
their production parts, sees company A's shiny new machine and ask's me my opinion and posibly help on getting them started and buys 2 new machines ( mazak vms smart and mazak turning center with live tooling smart) then later hire a new guy who knows mazatrol (whitch I do not exept simple things like hole patterns ) so I am unable to help. 3 months later and a few crashes later el new guy is finaly fired for not producing good parts. they hire second guy who has got 30yrs experiance and bla bla bla. first part on lathe he crashes costing company 12k or so then he fails to make acceptable part a few weeks after that and he is gone. now they are turing to me asking if i know some-one or can help.
I am not familiar with the turning center ( mazak) and am struggling to learn HSMWORKS LATHE. SO I WOULD HAVE TO LEARN 2 THINGS TO HELP MAZAK LATHE AND HSMWORKS LATHE.
Company is in se florida. Anyone know someone who can get them going or suggestions?????
thanks in advance

.
why not send somebody to mazak companies training school ?? by the way not sure how you can crash as if you have rapids and feeds slowed to minimum and watch distance to go screen you will know what it will do, i always watch first run of program and always watch after setting up first run. easy to mess up zero setting.
.
i like to use a startup check list before starting any cnc like a pilot checking the plane before take off so plane does not crash. it also means being careful flying the plane. not good to press green go button and walk away.
.
i also in mazatrol like to set inital Z at least 2" away. always a argument the got to rapid within 0.1" of part to save time. of course no time to react in rapid. been there, by the time you say what the f_ck and crash machine and trip overloads it is far too late to react. i have argued with a machinist who refused anything but but full rapid to cutting depth. his mill vise jaws were full have crash marks. in mazattrol relatively easy to increase initial Z and feed 200% to cut depth rather than rapid. i just would not save prgrams that way as it pissed him off. but i ran myself in safer mode usually

wheelieking71 · Aug 19, 2015

Like TomB said. Someone with 30yrs experience does not cause a $12k crash. They just don't do it (on accident).
Distance-to-go, single-block, and feed-hold are there for reasons. And, after 30yrs, one knows what to do with them.

SIM · Aug 19, 2015

DMF_TomB said:
.
by the way not sure how you can crash as if you have rapids and feeds slowed to minimum and watch distance to go screen you will know what it will do, i always watch first run of program and always watch after setting up first run. easy to mess up zero setting.
.

To answer OT...sorry, can't help you, help the companies...aside from getting yourself trained and then helping them. Ask either company to send you to the Mazak school mentioned...cheaper then a crash or making bad parts. For you, you get to learn from somebody in the know...not a bad deal.

As to how can a person Crash a ______ fill in the blank.

Your assuming he is talking about a person that gives a rats asrse.

Even if that person DID care at one time...it may be a person tossed into the deep end of the pool with management tossing him bricks instead of a safety line....
Figure they are now asking the poster to help...he's not up on his game and still sounds like they are perusing him...sounds like desperateration.

KENMASTERS · Aug 19, 2015

From what i understood the crash happened in mazatrol so i dont think you can see distance to go and where its going nexed like in g code programing. But i'm note sure since i rarely touch mazatrol.
Both former empoyees had someone from mazak train them for a couple of days. Both employees had previous
experience in mazak and mazatrol. Seems alot of people are either lathe guys or mill guys but not both.
The parts they are making are semi complex needing lathe opps first with live tooling then mill opps.

lionelt · Aug 19, 2015

To OP.

In need of help and opinions!!!!!

Can you change the title of the thread to indicate in more detail what the problem is.

Thread may get closed due to meaningless title.

Don't want that to happens as look like the start of an interesting thread.

KENMASTERS · Aug 19, 2015

FUNNY THING IS WHEN i POKED MY NOSE OVER THEIR TO SEE HOW THINGS WERE GOING THE GUYS WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME HOW EASY MAZATROL WAS AND THEY NEEDE NO HELP :skep:

KENMASTERS · Aug 19, 2015

lionelt said:
To OP.

In need of help and opinions!!!!!

Can you change the title of the thread to indicate in more detail what the problem is.

Thread may get closed due to meaningless title.

Don't want that to happens as look like the start of an interesting thread.

not quite sure how to change the title... any tips
thanks

lionelt · Aug 19, 2015

KENMASTERS said:
not quite sure how to change the title... any tips
thanks

Not sure never had to do it.

Try edit post and see if you can change the title that way.

scadvice · Aug 19, 2015

KENMASTERS said:
FUNNY THING IS WHEN i POKED MY NOSE OVER THEIR TO SEE HOW THINGS WERE GOING THE GUYS WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME HOW EASY MAZATROL WAS AND THEY NEEDE NO HELP

Yes it is easy to program. But apparently they are missing one of the great features on a Mazak, it's near impossible to crash one if the chuck and tail stock barriers and tools have been correctly along with stock material description setup before programming the part!

I never have crashed one (I did bust the tool eye though :bawling:

), one of my employee's did hit the tail stock, for got to reset the barrier. After that I made a checklist to be signed off. :skep:

They need to call Mazak spend the time and money on training, it wouldn't have cost them 12K!

DMF_TomB · Aug 20, 2015

KENMASTERS said:
From what i understood the crash happened in mazatrol so i dont think you can see distance to go and where its going nexed like in g code programing. But i'm note sure since i rarely touch mazatrol.
Both former empoyees had someone from mazak train them for a couple of days. Both employees had previous
experience in mazak and mazatrol. Seems alot of people are either lathe guys or mill guys but not both.
The parts they are making are semi complex needing lathe opps first with live tooling then mill opps.

.
yes of course you can see distance to go in mazatrol also rapid and feed all the way down to minimum and use single block you can control easily. only thing is tapping you can stop or feed hold between position and easy to do but once started only estop will stop a tap cycle
.
sorry but running 100% rapid and 100% feed is just not smart on a new program and new setup where zero was just set. also single block. those 3 are the main crash preventers. if you do not use the tools given you will crash sooner or later

Mtndew · Aug 20, 2015

wheelieking71 said:
Distance-to-go, single-block, and feed-hold are there for reasons.

You would be AMAZED how many people don't use these basic features.
Some people's idea of single blocking a program is having single block on, sticking their head in the machine while spamming the cycle start button and the other hand on the rapid override.

Guest · Aug 20, 2015

wheelieking71 said:
Like TomB said. Someone with 30yrs experience does not cause a $12k crash. They just don't do it (on accident).
Distance-to-go, single-block, and feed-hold are there for reasons. And, after 30yrs, one knows what to do with them.

I believe R.J. Newbould once said, he could have 1 year experience 30 times. Over 25 years ago when I worked at ITT we had a guy in his late 50's who had been operating the same dedicated Swiss cam machines since he was in his early 20's. As an operator who never attained set-up status he was just responsible to maintain the set-up which boiled down to changing out worn or broken tooling. With his over 30 years of experience he didn't know the difference between a left-hand and right hand drill. He once got a hold of a package of left handed drills and
feed them one by one to a right handed machine. We had a serve yourself tool crib, after breaking 10 of them he asked me to get him better drills, that brand and type was no good.

Jashley73 · Aug 20, 2015

I'm not so sure I understand the situation. You work for Company-A, correct? And Company-B is the one having all the problems, correct? Unless Company-B is giving you payment of some kind, my advise to you would be, to phone them up and say, "This sounds like YOUR problem. Unless you are going to hire me, full-time, or on an as-needed basis, then I suggest you leave me the hell alone..."

Mtndew · Aug 20, 2015

Jashley73 said:
I'm not so sure I understand the situation. You work for Company-A, correct? And Company-B is the one having all the problems, correct? Unless Company-B is giving you payment of some kind, my advise to you would be, to phone them up and say, "This sounds like YOUR problem. Unless you are going to hire me, full-time, or on an as-needed basis, then I suggest you leave me the hell alone..."

Maybe the OP is just a nice guy and wants to help them out?

Bobw · Aug 20, 2015

Mtndew said:
Maybe the OP is just a nice guy and wants to help them out?

That almost always comes back to bite you in the ass.

SIM · Aug 20, 2015

Bobw said:
That almost always comes back to bite you in the ass.

...ain't that the truth.

Help them, they don't listen to all information...they crash and blame you, they in turn speak to your boss, he gets pissed that your moonlighting / giving away company secrets to the competition...now two companies are pissed at ya with nothing to show for it.

Then again I tend to be a tad cynical...

Jashley73 · Aug 20, 2015

Bobw said:
That almost always comes back to bite you in the ass.

I learned a long time ago... No good deed goes un-punished. And even still, I fall victim to it on occasion...

thermite · Aug 20, 2015

SIM said:
...ain't that the truth.

Help them, they don't listen to all information...they crash and blame you, they in turn speak to your boss, he gets pissed that your moonlighting / giving away company secrets to the competition...now two companies are pissed at ya with nothing to show for it.

Then again I tend to be a tad cynical...

"Cynical"? Learned a long time ago that when a Noo Yawka said "Trust me!" (translation "F**k You!), there was usually a solid reason for that.

'Less'n both firms are under common ownership, I'm not sure I understand why 'Company A' hasn't already raised a fuss or found a new person they'd consider more loyal than to be messin' with 'Company B' atall.

???

In need of help and opinions!!!!!!

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