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Mid 1980's Ikegai CNC lathe - value if like new ?

Milacron

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Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
Unusual machine in that it's nearing antique status for CNC but is nearly pristine. If it was in typical condition for a mid 1980's machine value would be maybe 3000 bucks...but one like this ? FWIW, I'm mostly asking for a friend...don't want it myself. Just curious if there is even a remote chance he can get what he wants for it. (which I will not reveal just yet ;) )

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Nice machine. I've always liked Ikegai's. But it's mid 80's technology. Brushes. Slow by todays standards. Parts issues....
I don't think over about $5k. And that because it's in quite nice shape.
I'm curious now to hear what he wants for it...
 
Don;

As you know, I am looking for a decent basic lathe. Could I get some specifics of that machine? I have had good luck with a similar vintage Fanuc operated mill and would be very interested in learning more about your friends lathe.

glenn @ metro north (dot ca)
 
But it's mid 80's technology. Brushes
Yes, Fanuc 10T (I think) with "yellow cap" DC servos.

I forgot to mention, it comes with a nice hydraulic 3 jaw chuck in addition to the 16C collet chuck shown. But with no collets as he uses 16C in his other Ikegai that he wants to keep.
 
If a dealer sold this machine and if it is as good as you say, he could get $12500.- or a bit more.
Service is not good, but Fanuc has parts and there are quite a few guys that know how to keep it running.
Its not for you if you bid on large lot jobs for Honda that require real short cycle times, but real good for a job shop.
programming, cutter comp and the canned cycles are hardly different today.
Heinz.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/hputz
 
PB, calm down m'man...was hoping for some more responses first ;)

Well ok....$13,000....with a comment about keeping it if he couldn't get $10,000 for it !

You were hoping I was gonna say $4,000 weren't you ? ;)
 
Re hours, I was only moderately interested at the time and didn't notice and didn't ask. There is an hour meter right there on the front, but upon closer examination of the full size image in my files I see a "reset" button on it, which would make it's reading meaningless anyway.
 
WOW...I looked at an 87 model LC-20 Okuma a couple years ago that was a one owner machine with a bit less than 2000 hours on it. I thought it was nice, but it wouldn't match this lathe at all. It was a 4 axis machine and the owner was asking $23,500 for it. He eventually sold it for $17,000.

IMO, the issue of brushes is overblown to a large degree. One of my LC-20's is an 84 model with Yaskawa brush DC servos and spindle motor. It was run enough on a 2 shift operation prior to me buying it that it had 4 new ballscrews (4 axis machine), yet the original full set of spare brushes are all in their original plastic bag in the control enclosure. I checked all the brushes prior to running it, under the assumption that I'd replace them if anything looked remotely questionable since the new onew were there anyway, but all of them showed at least 50% remaining life, so I left them alone.

I look at lathes in a different light than machining centers. Top spindle speed on a brand new one is about the same as top speed on one of equivalent size from 20+ years ago. The only place where a new one is faster is on rapids and turret indexing. Because tool change positions can be set to take place barely clear of the part, rapids have less influence on overall speed of a lathe as compared to a machining center. For operations like threading where there are a lot of repetitive moves, the return move is short, so acceleration factors make the total return time difference less than the difference in rapids would indicate.

A new lathe of the size and quality of that Ikegai would likely push $80K. Assume the new machine would rapid and index tools in half the time of the old one. If a person was to pay $7500 for the Ikegai and run parts on it where the total rapid and toolchange time amounted to one minute per part, you'd have to run 145,000 parts on the new machine at a dollar a minute before the time savings based on rapids and turret indexing would reach the break even point. If you drop down a notch or two in price and rigidity on the new machine, and lose the slightest bit in cutting capability in the process, you may never reach the break even point before both machines are worn out.

I know of an early 80's Matsuura VMC that's every bit as nice as the Ikegai up above. Because of spindle speed, rapids, lack of full enclosure, and toolchange times, its a $2500-$3500 machine tops, but the owner thinks its worth $7500. If the overall performance on machining centers from then to now was as close together as it is on lathes, the Matsuura would be worth $7500 in a heartbeat, but that just ain't the case.
 
Obvious from the photo there is no chip conveyor. I doubt many like new lathes this old ever had a chip conveyor, otherwise they would have been in production and wouldn't look like this. I noticed the owner did keep his chips in a 5 gallon bucket, since they were bronze and worth a bit of money to recycle. I think that is a large part of why the machine looks so nice is that he only ran non ferrous materials that didn't need coolant.
 
Obvious from the photo there is no chip conveyor
Not so obvious, could have been a rear exit conveyor.

If removing chips is not a real pain, I could use this machine on an aluminum production part that produces about 200lbs of chips an hour.
 
I was gonna say $10K or so for the Ikegai.

It's gonna be a reliable workhorse, with incredible surface finishes on the work it puts out.

Cycle times of cnc turning are mostly in-the-cut. Rapids and tool index times don't mean much in a cnc lathe.

Maximum rpm's, horsepower, rigidity, standard control...these things make a cnc lathe.
 
Well.. the "icky guy" has emigrated to Canada and is running its first job in my shop right now. It left SC on Monday Nov. 12th and arrived in my shop on the 14th. I spent a few days sorting out the unknowns, levelling, finding a low DC voltage in the control, making tools etc. but it is now running. Not only was it in as good a condition as stated but the seller gave me "over the phone" start-up support when I was un-sure of a few things, found a second rigger for me when the first backed out and also bought me lunch when I went to inspect the machine. It came with the 3 jaw and 16C collet chucks as advertised but also came with a bar puller, other odds and ends of tooling, all manuals, original tool box and a tool setting microscope. I have tweaked a few parameters to make it a bit more efficient and will turn on Macro-B and canned drill cycles later this week. Thanks to all involved for doing a very fair deal with me.

Glenn @ Metro North
 
That's a really nice machine Glenn.

My first machine was a '77 model FX20N with a 5T. After I rebuilt the machine and learned a bit about the control I was sorry to have to sell it. Very rigid and stout machine. I would have loved to get my hands on that machine you have now, just out of my price range.


If I ever decide to sell my Daewoo I'll be looking for another "icky-guy." :D

Oh, as a side note: I believe in the next 4-5 years there will be a ton of them starting to become available down in Southern California. There seems to be a whole lot of them down there still churning out parts.

Michael
 
Steve @ Reliance;

The 3 jaw is on it right now but it wouldn't take more than 15 - 20 minutes to put the collet chuck on. I'm guessing that you would either like to buy it from me, (but you can't because it also fits my Colchester Storm 220M) or you have work that needs a second op, in which case I would be happy to quote it for you.

Glenn @ Metro North
 








 
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