Needing help with Pratt & Whitney Turnmate Fanuc 6T

the-machinist · Sep 10, 2014

Recently acquired a 1983 Pratt & Whitney Turnmate with Fanuc 6T controls. No stranger to Fanuc but never this old. It has an air chuck and air turret. Its wired up in a friends shop at the moment. Thus far I can get it to ref. return, turret indexes, both axis move smooth in jog, coolant pump runs, chuck opens and closes. I can't get the spindle to do anything nor can I get MDI to work, if I'm even doing it right, its different than what I'm used to. I switch to MDI and then press command button, I try giving it a G code or S with a number and what I'm pressing doesn't show up on screen. There were 2 programs still in machine, they look to be written correctly. I put in MEM and cycle start and it picks up everything fine, it gets to G50 S2500 and does fine, next is G96 S300 M3, and it freezes on that line, and cycle start button stays lit up green. Won't go any further than that. Spindle spins freely so I thought maybe it's not in gear, I tried putting M40 M41 M42 M43 one at a time in program and it froze up on those as well. I tried changing the G96 to G97, no change. The controls have spindle buttons CW CCW STOP, nothing happens. There is also CW and CCW inching, so I guess that is just jogging the spindle, still nothing. When I open up the back, I see the spindle drive unit/board, I see one green light and four white bulbs, so I have no reds all green. Behind that panel is magnetic contact switch and its enabled. I can see no blown fuses. There hasn't been any alarm codes or messages thus far. I've tried with chuck open and closed, and chucking on material with jaw travel about half way, still nothing. There has been a time or two, it doesn't do it every time, when I try to turn the spindle on, it sounds like it tries, I see the load needle go from 0 to 100 and then alarms out. But no alarm code or message, just says not ready. So I hit e-stop and pull back out and red light goes away. When it does that and I go around back, magnetic switch is out, after I reset, it makes contact again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

yardbird · Sep 10, 2014

I thinking there is a interlock not letting the spindle turn on. Last time I read a post like this it was a interlock on the bar feeder wasn't being satisfied. Air chuck? That's a first for me. G96 constant surface feed G97 spindle RPM. Can you post some clear pictures of the control? Where is the inside/outside gripping switch? Its been a while but I think I remember the programs looking similar to this.

G50 X Z
T0202
M41
G97S400M4
GO X Z M8
G50S1500
G96S600
G1 F
Yada
Yada
Yada
G0 X Z G40
M9
G0T0200
M1

I dont know why the G96 and M3 are on the same line?
Obviously it was working. Im betting on a interlock somewhere

Brent

Vancbiker · Sep 10, 2014

the-machinist said:
...When I open up the back, I see the spindle drive unit/board, I see one green light and four white bulbs, so I have no reds all green. Behind that panel is magnetic contact switch and its enabled. I can see no blown fuses. There hasn't been any alarm codes or messages thus far. I've tried with chuck open and closed, and chucking on material with jaw travel about half way, still nothing. There has been a time or two, it doesn't do it every time, when I try to turn the spindle on, it sounds like it tries, I see the load needle go from 0 to 100 and then alarms out. But no alarm code or message, just says not ready. So I hit e-stop and pull back out and red light goes away. When it does that and I go around back, magnetic switch is out, after I reset, it makes contact again. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Sounds like an open circuit on the output side of the drive. Is this an AC or DC spindle?

the-machinist · Sep 10, 2014

AC spindle

Vancbiker · Sep 10, 2014

Have you checked continuity of the cables from the drive to the motor? Could also be a bad transistor module or current sense resistor in the drive.

You mentioned a red light in the first post. Is that a light on the op panel? On some older machines the machine builder would have PMC errors turn on an indicator light and the user had to check a field of diagnostic bits to see which one was on and then check a table in the manual for the meaning of the error.

the-machinist · Sep 10, 2014

Yes the red light is on the panel it just says machine alarm. Nothing shows up in alarm menu just says not ready. I know what your talking about though there is a diag button that leads to a screen that looks like parameters. Zeros and ones everywhere.

Vancbiker · Sep 10, 2014

The light is for machine alarms. Those are determined by the builder, not Fanuc. They are generated by errors in the PMC ladder program. The alarm page only displays Fanuc alarms.

Do you have manuals for the machine?

Garwood · Sep 11, 2014

With my 6M the operators manual is written a little backwards, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy to use the PC parameters and diag page to narrow down the problem.

You've got an old, odd machine. Hope you have the books.

the-machinist · Sep 11, 2014

I did find a manual behind the control panel door. It's the maintenance manual. Also have the programming manual but it's missing the parameters pages from the back.

atex57 · Sep 11, 2014

What is the part number on the spindle drive/amp? It should start with 06b. I have the same model 1 year older and had spindle drive problems.

Ed.

Vancbiker · Sep 11, 2014

the-machinist said:
...It's the maintenance manual.

Is it a Fanuc maintenance manual or P&W maintenance manual? If it is the Fanuc manual, it will not have the info you need since yo are dealing with a P&W alarm.

ewlsey · Sep 11, 2014

On my 6T machine, you do this:

Go to MDI mode
Press the COMND button
Press Page Down
Enter the M code for your spindle gear change. It's M38 or M39 on mine.
Set the pot for the spindle speed
Press Spindle CW button

the-machinist · Sep 11, 2014

-Ok answering several questions here. The part number on the board is A20B-0009-053, is that what you're talking about?

-The front of the manual says " Pratt & Whitney Turn Mate Maintenance Manual Fujitsu Fanuc LTD" has lots of blueprints in it.

-When I go to MDI, and press COMMAND, and try entering codes in, it doesn't work. I press any letter, or any number, and they don't display on screen as if I'm not pressing anything.

A guy at work told me to check on 2 switches that should be on the end of the draw tube. It lets machine know that chuck is closed. I know what he's talking about I have seen them on the Okuma LB15's I program, but I don't
see any on this one. I can't even see out the back of the tube, I don't know how I am supposed to load a long bar. When I take the back panel off the machine, I see the encoder upper left with a belt leading to a bigger pulley, it reads
Cushman Chucks on the back of it, and something with 2 end caps and it says to release pressure thru the set screws before dis-assembling. But I don't see a plate or anything to take a plate off to see thru tube like I am used to seeing/doing.
I see the black with red cap Fanuc drive down below for the ball screw, but where is the motor? I can spin the chuck by hand and it's silent and very smooth. I do see the tube move in and out when I close and open the chuck so thats working.

ewlsey · Sep 11, 2014

Once you go to MDI, you need to press Page Down. You can't enter commands on the main screen. You need to page down to get to the MDI screen.

Vancbiker · Sep 11, 2014

The manual you have should have some kind of section to tell you how to determine what machine error is turning on the red light.

Some lathes do not have switches to check the clamp condition. Some use a pressure switch on the chuck hydraulics to verify clamping. Some chuck actuators are not hollow through the center.

Garwood · Sep 12, 2014

Like Ewlsey said, there's two command screens on the 6's. You need the second one. Hit page down or tap the command button twice to get there.

atex57 · Sep 12, 2014

Here is how my P&W 6T starts and does MDI. Capitalised are keys or buttons on panel.

do a reference return

press U then Origin

press W then Origin

close the chuck (same Cushman as you apparently have)

turn selector to MDI

press Command key

press Page down arrow
top of screen should say "next block/MDI"

input S500

press Input key

input M4 (yours may be M3 for forward)

press Input key

press Cycle Start key
watch the load meter and report what it does

press M5

press Input

press Cycle start
to stop spindle if it is running or press Reset and then Spindle Stop

On mine the spindle amp needs the proper phase rotation, it has a light that comes on if it is not right.

Did you find the spindle amp model number? It is on the amp base, it starts with 06B in the format of 06B-xxxx-Hxxx if it is the same as mine I have manuals and some trouble shooting for it.

Ed.

the-machinist · Sep 12, 2014

OK, time for an update.

I did get into the right screen of MDI and got to input codes. Thanks for the help with that. Here's how that went....

I put in G97 S500 M3 and then I pressed start
Then the cycle start button lit up green
I pressed it nothing happened
The CW button lit up
I heard something click
The needle went up
The needle came down
And red light came on

I tried it with the chuck open and closed, would not do anything with open
but did attempt when closed, so I'm assuming that the switch or whatever it
has is relaying the signal that chuck is closed.

I'd like to throw in a question right quick since I'm on that topic, if I bore a set
of I.D. jaws to hold on the bore of something, where on these controls do I
switch the chuck direction?

Ed, I apologize this is my first CNC. I've never had to work on them before ,so
I have no clue where to look for this spindle amp you speak of. I would be glad
to give you that number if you could tell me where it is and what it looks like.
I took some pics today and will upload them. I appreciate the help.

Like I said before, I'm just assuming there is something wrong somewhere
because there were 2 fully written programs still in machine. I've programmed
CNC for 8 years now and they look correct to me. I know this is a different era of
machine than I am used to dealing with. Even when I try doing MEM and Cycle Start
with either one of these, it flies down thru the initial codes picks up the G50 X.. Z..
then the G50 S.., and when it gets to either the G97 or G96 it just freezes and won't
go any further....the cycle start button stays lit up, almost like its waiting for something.
Then after a few seconds, it will eventually do what it done with me in MDI as I mentioned
above. Load needle goes up, comes down, red light on.

On a good note, the machine is in excellent cosmetic condition to be 31 years old and
it only has 60 hours on it.

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming.

Vancbiker · Sep 12, 2014

I'm still thinking you have an open circuit on the output side of the spindle amp.

Here is how I am imagining the control response to your attempt to turn on the spindle

CNC sends run signal to drive.
Drive attempts to supply power to motor, causing load meter to increase.
Control does not receive up to speed signal (SAR in Fanuc speak) in required amount of time.
CNC sends stop signal to drive and flags error light.

You're gonna have to get friendly with your multimeter and start checking for continuity on the motor power leads and the current sense resistor in the drive. If those check OK then start looking for an open circuit on the transistor modules in the drive. That is starting to get pretty deep for one without any CNC repair experience, but if you know some about electronics, you'll be able to do it.

atex57 · Sep 16, 2014

the-machinist said:
OK, time for an update.

I did get into the right screen of MDI and got to input codes. Thanks for the help with that. Here's how that went....

I put in G97 S500 M3 and then I pressed start
Then the cycle start button lit up green
I pressed it nothing happened
The CW button lit up
I heard something click
The needle went up
The needle came down
And red light came on

Which red light came on, what is its label?

I tried it with the chuck open and closed, would not do anything with open
but did attempt when closed, so I'm assuming that the switch or whatever it
has is relaying the signal that chuck is closed.

I'd like to throw in a question right quick since I'm on that topic, if I bore a set
of I.D. jaws to hold on the bore of something, where on these controls do I
switch the chuck direction?

Ed, I apologize this is my first CNC. I've never had to work on them before ,so
I have no clue where to look for this spindle amp you speak of. I would be glad
to give you that number if you could tell me where it is and what it looks like.
I took some pics today and will upload them. I appreciate the help.

Look on the baseplate of the drive, mine is at the top left and behind the top PC board. The part number will start with 06B, keep looking till you find it.

Like I said before, I'm just assuming there is something wrong somewhere
because there were 2 fully written programs still in machine. I've programmed
CNC for 8 years now and they look correct to me. I know this is a different era of
machine than I am used to dealing with. Even when I try doing MEM and Cycle Start
with either one of these, it flies down thru the initial codes picks up the G50 X.. Z..
then the G50 S.., and when it gets to either the G97 or G96 it just freezes and won't
go any further....the cycle start button stays lit up, almost like its waiting for something.
Then after a few seconds, it will eventually do what it done with me in MDI as I mentioned
above. Load needle goes up, comes down, red light on.

Again with the red light, if it is a panel light what is its label? Then check if any lights are on on the spindle drive PC board, what are the labels for them?

On a good note, the machine is in excellent cosmetic condition to be 31 years old and
it only has 60 hours on it.

Looks very simular to mine, It came from a tech school and had very low hours.

If you get it up and running then there is a very good thread with Ox's input about setting tools and tool table.

Ed.

Needing help with Pratt & Whitney Turnmate Fanuc 6T

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