Harrison Alpha 330 Plus

curleysracecars · Jan 19, 2018

Hey all,

Ive done some research and realize there is a "bad" version of this machine with proprietary software, and another that may be more user friendly. I have an opportunity to score one but am pretty sure it is the style that will require the proprietary software that I dont want to deal with. I sort of brushed it off but wantto make sure it is the "bad" version before totally writing it off the list.

Attached is a picture. Can someone verify this is the good or bad style machine? Also, can these be run as a manual machine with the hand wheels?

Thanks!

Andy St · Jan 19, 2018

From what I can tell in the photo that would be the more advanced lathe. The one with both the Harrison Alpha and FANUC controls. They can also be run manual to a point. Not really as versatile as a normal manual lathe as far as I can tell.

Please contact me if you end up getting it.

Andy

gregormarwick · Jan 19, 2018

Andy St said:
From what I can tell in the photo that would be the more advanced lathe.

No, that is the basic Alpha, original version that can only be operated in Alpha simple conversational mode or with the proprietary Alphalink/Alphacam software.

Simple way to tell is single keypad (as in the photo) = Alpha only, dual keypad (one either side of the screen) = switchable between Alpha and normal Fanuc operation.

curleysracecars · Jan 19, 2018

Andy,
Thanks for the response. It does have the Fanuc control on it...so does that mean it does not require the weird Harrison software, and will read standard G-code? Here are a couple other pictures.

Whats the general opinion of these? I have a small shop and looking at lathes that would fit in a somewhat small space. Are these good solid machines? Hold tolerance well usually?

Thanks again.

Vancbiker · Jan 19, 2018

The basic Alpha control uses a Fanuc Powermate control for hardware. The Powermate is a pretty simple motion controller, not a true CNC. I've seen them mainly used as vehicle controllers in cell machining centers.

gregormarwick · Jan 19, 2018

Vancbiker said:
The basic Alpha control uses a Fanuc Powermate control for hardware. The Powermate is a pretty simple motion controller, not a true CNC. I've seen them mainly used as vehicle controllers in cell machining centers.

The basic Alpha is a 21T with custom screens, not a powermate.

Vancbiker · Jan 19, 2018

gregormarwick said:
The basic Alpha is a 21T with custom screens, not a powermate.

Interesting! I'm pretty sure that the one I looked at at IMTS years ago was a Powermate. I wonder why they would have used a 21 and then drop so much of the functionality?

gregormarwick · Jan 19, 2018

Vancbiker said:
Interesting! I'm pretty sure that the one I looked at at IMTS years ago was a Powermate. I wonder why they would have used a 21 and then drop so much of the functionality?

There was a model around the early 2000s that had a tiny monochrome LCD. I've never seen one of those in person so it's possible you might have seen one of those? The really old ones (mid-late 90's, as per op's photo) were a 20T with the standard 9" CRT but no Fanuc keypad/operator panel. The newer dual function ones were/are a 21i-T with a standard Fanuc keypad along with the Alpha keypad. I've only briefly played with one those in person (at an auction viewing) so my first hand experience is really only with the older type.

The first Alphas were built in around 1995 and the 600 group were already using Fanuc controls (0T and 20T, maybe 21T) on previous colchester and harrison lathes. The reason for using a 21T was most likely due to the requirements of implementing the alpha conversational system - it's all built on custom screens and macro B. I think controls that supported custom screens was probably a short list in 1995, but that's just a guess on my part.

curleysracecars · Jan 19, 2018

Alot of this is going over my head. In a nut shell, does this read generic Fanuc type G-code? Or is the software required going to be a nightmare?

Andy St · Jan 19, 2018

Sorry about my earlier reply. The control in your photo looks different than the one at work (which is the Alpha only model)so I thought it was the dual control model. I hate to post info that is incorrect.

Andy St · Jan 19, 2018

I wonder if the "standard Fanuc keypad" could be added to the Alpha only models? Or could something like the Centroid Acorn CNC control kit be added easily?

Andy

Vancbiker · Jan 19, 2018

gregormarwick said:
There was a model around the early 2000s that had a tiny monochrome LCD. I've never seen one of those in person so it's possible you might have seen one of those?

Could have been. It is too long ago to remember details about the screen.

I do know a Powermate can run macro programs. Any hardware that can output data by RS232 can be used to assign variables for the macro to use when executed.

gregormarwick · Jan 20, 2018

Andy St said:
I wonder if the "standard Fanuc keypad" could be added to the Alpha only models? Or could something like the Centroid Acorn CNC control kit be added easily?

Andy

I've thought about this before in passing. Without further investigation I'd say yes, but it might not be completely trivial. The hardware would certainly connect. The alpha keypad is routed through the Harrison I/O board before going to the standard operator panel connector on the CNC. On the Harrison I/O board there is a bank of dip switches and a push button that are used to access the standard Fanuc screens (Position, Offset, Program etc.). The alpha keypad does function on the Fanuc screens to enter numerical data, along with some other keys doing what they would normally do (x, z, reset, cancel for example). The spindle inverter is controlled normally by the analog spindle output on the CNC, but the potentiometer on the operator panel is somehow mixed in with that. There is no mode selection switch, cycle start, feed hold, or overrides so those would all have to be added.

Andy St · Jan 20, 2018

Thanks gregormarwick
That's good information to at least start thinking about doing something like that. I like the size of the lathe and the quality of the mechanical parts.
I will have to start looking for a used Fanuc keypad on eBay. What terms should I use for the search? What other equipment would be needed?
Andy

gregormarwick said:
I've thought about this before in passing. Without further investigation I'd say yes, but it might not be completely trivial. The hardware would certainly connect. The alpha keypad is routed through the Harrison I/O board before going to the standard operator panel connector on the CNC. On the Harrison I/O board there is a bank of dip switches and a push button that are used to access the standard Fanuc screens (Position, Offset, Program etc.). The alpha keypad does function on the Fanuc screens to enter numerical data, along with some other keys doing what they would normally do (x, z, reset, cancel for example). The spindle inverter is controlled normally by the analog spindle output on the CNC, but the potentiometer on the operator panel is somehow mixed in with that. There is no mode selection switch, cycle start, feed hold, or overrides so those would all have to be added.

Andy St · Jan 20, 2018

So Just a quick search on eBay brings up lot's of hits for a Fanuc keypad. Here's one

A98L-1-864 FANUC keypad CNC operation panel new | eBay

I don't see any switches on any board in the lathe. Here are a few photos of some of the boards. There are also several standoffs mounted just above the headstock hidden below the Alpha control that look like the would have held another board?

Andy

Andy St · Jan 20, 2018

curleysracecars

If that lathe you are looking at is a good price and in good condition maybe a modification like this would give you what you are looking for. I don't really know but it seems almost everything is already there co convert it to a normal Fanuc control? Then again maybe not?

Andy

gregormarwick · Jan 20, 2018

OK, all bets are off.

From the photos in your last post that does indeed appear to be a Powermate, and is completely different to the Alphas I'm familiar with.

Andy St · Jan 20, 2018

Yes Fanuc Power mate 0. Maybe if I can find someone with a similar lathe that has the dual control I could see if the hardware update is possible. But there might be software problems as well. I don't think these lathes are very common in this size.

Andy

curleysracecars · Jan 20, 2018

Thanks guys. So this one is the type that requires goofy software...or maybe some sort of retrofit. If that's the case, I'll pass on it. Thanks.

Harrison Alpha 330 Plus

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