New Okuma Genos lathes or what to chose

ctl_tec · Aug 20, 2017

Hello guys ,
Have anybody an ideea what are the specs of the new Okuma Genos lathes?
I think in Europe they will launch them in September from what the guy from Okuma distribuitor in our area told me.
He just knows that the new models will have buit-in spindle motors.

I am asking that because we are looking for the first cnc machine. We do work on manual machines and we cant keep up with the orders.

We want it with milling and C axis and to be a reliable machine.

As an option it will be :
-Victor Taichung A range(buit in spindle), Takisawa Japan(buid in spindle) - this are distribuited by a company who is close to us
-Hyundai
-Hurco , Emco

As the size : 8-10 inch chuch , over 20 inch z axis

Thanks,

Regards,
Cata

SND · Aug 20, 2017

No Doosan out your way?
I'm shopping now and they seem to offer quite a bit for the $.

Built in spindles/motors worry me, much more $$$ to repair vs belted.

ctl_tec · Aug 21, 2017

I know what you say but tehnology is going up and we must keep with it if we want to be competitive.
About Doosan I heard more bad things then Victor or Okuma.
It is the first cnc machine that we going to buy and we can`t afford to f... up.

WILLEO6709 · Aug 21, 2017

If you need much center distance you can step up to an Okuma LB3000EXII myw. - gives you more daylight between the spindles, which does not sound like much if all you make is beer cans but if you make longer stuff its life.

Tonytn36 · Aug 21, 2017

SND said:
Built in spindles/motors worry me, much more $$$ to repair vs belted.

That entirely depends.... our little Genos L250E is needing a spindle rebuild. (7 years in, about 25,000 parts a month every month). But it's 4-5 DAYS the machine will be down to do this rebuild. Parts are relatively cheap, I think about $3800. Figure double that for labor, so you are in about 10k for a rebuild. But the real kicker is the 4-5 days down, that's a _substantial_ loss (multiple $10k's). With an integral spindle (at least on Mazaks), we are down about 20 hrs and the spindle is quite a bit less than $20k (exchange).

SND · Aug 21, 2017

Sounds like that genos has performed fairly decent overall. Is that about the same amount of years you get out of a mazak spindle?
How's the coolant tank on those? from what I saw its built into the casting but is it fairly cleanable?

For me stuck in the middle of nowhere for service, I have to consider being the one to do the work, a few days down isn't that big a deal usually, heck if I have to wait to someone to come here I'll be down weeks/months. $20k on a spindle wouldn't be as fun for me, vs a few thousand for bearings, or just having to replace a motor/belts if they quit. Then again for my use, its more likely I'd just kill it in a crash than from hours/wear either way. I'm still trying to keep mazak on my list, but those integral spindle also need a lot of power.

I'm curious about what the problems the OP heard of with Doosan, what models/age were they, and what went wrong?
I can't remember hearing of too many problems on here.

Tonytn36 · Aug 22, 2017

SND said:
Sounds like that genos has performed fairly decent overall. Is that about the same amount of years you get out of a mazak spindle?
How's the coolant tank on those? from what I saw its built into the casting but is it fairly cleanable?

For me stuck in the middle of nowhere for service, I have to consider being the one to do the work, a few days down isn't that big a deal usually, heck if I have to wait to someone to come here I'll be down weeks/months. $20k on a spindle wouldn't be as fun for me, vs a few thousand for bearings, or just having to replace a motor/belts if they quit. Then again for my use, its more likely I'd just kill it in a crash than from hours/wear either way. I'm still trying to keep mazak on my list, but those integral spindle also need a lot of power.

I'm curious about what the problems the OP heard of with Doosan, what models/age were they, and what went wrong?
I can't remember hearing of too many problems on here.

It's been a fairly good machine. Cleaning the tank is a PITA as it is under the machine in the casting. That is about the same life we get out of a Mazak spindle, so not a big deal there. Electrically, we have had to replace the P200 control motherboard twice and an I/O module once. Mechanically, we've replaced the coolant pump once and the pneumatic door cylinder twice (auto door).

On edit: I forgot about the dozen or so windows. Those were not the machines fault. The clamping system we use 90% of the time has parts that will fatigue over time and break, letting part of the part go in the process (usually breaks the part). Even though we have an inspection and change frequency, the variability of material, manufacture and heat treat of those parts still occasionally allows them to break unexpectedly.

ctl_tec · Aug 22, 2017

WILLEO6709 said:
If you need much center distance you can step up to an Okuma LB3000EXII myw. - gives you more daylight between the spindles, which does not sound like much if all you make is beer cans but if you make longer stuff its life.

am LB3000EXII myw it will be heaven , but I dont think is in my price range. with the sub and Y it will be at least 50 000 euro more !?

ctl_tec · Aug 31, 2017

regarding the new genos , the okuma guy called me and said that okuma keep the tehnical details for them until the EMO tradeshow in Germany.

Mstcnc · Sep 1, 2017

Little info I got from dealer:
New genos will have same spindle as japan models have now, ie. japan models will get new spindle models.
Big (bad) news was no sub spindle option for genos anymore, only japan models.

ctl_tec · Sep 4, 2017

thanks for info.
regarding the precision of actual genos? anyone?

WILLEO6709 · Sep 4, 2017

I looked at one and had several references from local people running them. Overall precision was rated very good ( although the thermal comp on the LB series is further advanced). I can't say firsthand, but I think several members here have them. I find it hard to believe you won't be able to get a genos L300/3000( new one last imts)-myw with subspindle, I would not take secondhand word on that.

ctl_tec · Sep 4, 2017

I am now 50% into okuma genos , 40 into takisawa ts4000Y and 10 into victor A20/26.
takisawa is more $ but is 100% japan.
After talking with 2 customer I think I will need Y and I will drop the sub to be able to machine longer shafts- from what i heard , in this cases the tailstock is beter then the sub.

ctl_tec · Oct 2, 2017

ok.
the new genos is available....but not all models. No Y axis and the longer bed isnt in production yet.

Regarding the turret what you guys like? VDI or BMT?

WILLEO6709 · Oct 2, 2017

I love the bmt 65 on my lb3000

SND · Oct 3, 2017

ctl_tec said:
ok.
the new genos is available....but not all models. No Y axis and the longer bed isnt in production yet.

Regarding the turret what you guys like? VDI or BMT?

Sounds like the whole genos line will be the 2000, 3000 models, not sure if a 4000 will replace the L400, we'll see, thing is they don't seem priced as an entry level machine anymore which is what I thought the Genos line was all about, so I don't know what the goal is there.
Personally I don't want anything with VDI, never used either yet but VDI looks weird and weak to me just looking at it.

ctl_tec · Oct 3, 2017

regarding the VDI vs BMT , I just wanted to confirm my thinking

on the same bed and the same machine ( at least Okuma) BMT has a big minus on the maximum lenght of the work piece

.

ctl_tec · Dec 23, 2017

The advance has been payd on a Genos L3000M long bed with BMT turret.

jerry_tung · Dec 23, 2017

The new Genos lathe is gonna have direct drive axes motors as what I was told by my Okuma vendor.

ctl_tec · Dec 23, 2017

The major diference betwin the new and the old are:
buid-in spindle motor
stronger turret
the old has coolant pan in the casting , on the new one is separate
newer control
and more expensive(aprox. 10%)

New Okuma Genos lathes or what to chose

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