Help!! Milltronics Tool Height Offsets

frostbitevinnie · Apr 1, 2009

Ok, here is the deal. For years I have been running older CNC machines, Cincinnati Gilbert bar mill was the last with Fanuc retrofit control. I got laid off and within a month got hired on running a new Millitronics HM70 bar mill. For a long time I have been using a height setter and putting in the EXACT height that the height setter gives me for the tool offset and setting Z0 with a probe of know height. With this machine they don't use the EXACT tool height but rather how far the part Z0 tool is from home, so offsets for what I would consider to be a 6" tool is put into the offsets as a HUGE #, in the 50" to 60" range. On top of that the relative and absolute #'s are in inches and the machine #'s are in metric. Really confusing for a guy that has used machine #'s for many years.

This is the companies 1st mill, besides a standard Bridgeport and I am trying to figure out how to remedy the tool height issue and the machine #'s being in metric. Can any of you good folks give an old machinist some hints?????

Much appreciated!!

Vinnie

HuFlungDung · Apr 1, 2009

I'd have to ask if you are the only guy who will be setting up and running the machine.

There are certainly options and steps you could take to do it any way you like, but you'd need to be on the same page as all the other guys in the shop.

SchneiderMachine · Apr 1, 2009

The machine numbers being in metric is a parameter change, not to difficult. A call to Milltronics will remedy that, they will tell you the parameter to change.
Height offsets, As I understand it they have no presetter so the way your used to won't work all that well. The presetter goes of the gage line of the tool holder I believe.
There is a fast/easy way to do this, In the run menu there is a button towards the right called tool set??? When you push this you will have to hit cycle start to continue, it will ask you for your setting gage height. I use an electronic gage that is 2 inches when the light comes on so I enter 2.000, it will then ask you what tool number, enter 1 if that's the one you want to set, handwheel the tool to the setter until the light comes on (mine anyway) hit enter, next question will be dia/rad of tool,,, hit enter again, it will then ask for the next tool, enter 2 (if that's next) the machine will automatically got to the tool change height and grab tool 2, handwheel down and repeat the process. Once you do it a couple times it won't be so bad. Only problem with this way is all the tools are referenced from the top of whatever you are using.
Hope I've shed some light for you.
Dave

P.S. If you want to call, I could walk you through it the first time, PM me, I'll give you my number

Ox · Apr 1, 2009

It sounds to me like it needs another param change yet...

I have a lathe that came in that set X and Z axis to "0" at the home switch. This made for tool offsets - like you - in the Z -80.000 area and all the X offsets also in negs. :willy_nilly:

The param for "home location" was set to 0,0. Once altered - it was like most eny other machine. I set Z0 at the face of the turret to the face of the chuck and life is good!

Maybe you want to see about altering something on this control this way? I am not familier at all with the Milltronics control tho. I would Shirley want actual tool lengths! ESPECIALLY if your setup now is using negatives. (You didn't say that it was - but that's how mine was.) Boy - you can muck something up quick when trying to alter a tool length in negs when you (and everyone else in the free world) is used to positives! And I am guessing a part on this machine has a bit of value to it....

Let alone the fact that it would be MUCH quicker and more repeatable to git a measurement offline on a horizontal!

I think Schneider is talking of a process on a vertical?

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April Fools!
Ox

SchneiderMachine · Apr 1, 2009

Yup, vertical. Shouldda noticed the H part in HM70 :eek:

Dave

frostbitevinnie · Apr 1, 2009

Thanks for the help guys. Height setter or not on mills, not just the ones I have run but other horiz; SHW, Wotan, G&L, the tool height was set from the face of the spindle to the tip of the tool (essentially the same as a height setter). Prior to using a height setter, to find tool lengths 1st time I would skim a small area, zero out relative Z, remove tool, extend spindle to touch skimmed area, insert length into tool offset.

Yes all the tool lengths are neg. in the -50" to -60" range. Sure would be nice to simply input the actual tool length. Call me old fashioned but if I have a 6" tool I kinda like to put in -6" into my offset.

Speedie · Apr 1, 2009

frostbitevinnie said:
Ok, here is the deal. For years I have been running older CNC machines, Cincinnati Gilbert bar mill was the last with Fanuc retrofit control. I got laid off and within a month got hired on running a new Millitronics HM70 bar mill. For a long time I have been using a height setter and putting in the EXACT height that the height setter gives me for the tool offset and setting Z0 with a probe of know height. With this machine they don't use the EXACT tool height but rather how far the part Z0 tool is from home, so offsets for what I would consider to be a 6" tool is put into the offsets as a HUGE #, in the 50" to 60" range. On top of that the relative and absolute #'s are in inches and the machine #'s are in metric. Really confusing for a guy that has used machine #'s for many years.

This is the companies 1st mill, besides a standard Bridgeport and I am trying to figure out how to remedy the tool height issue and the machine #'s being in metric. Can any of you good folks give an old machinist some hints?????

Much appreciated!!

Vinnie

Pretty sure thats how we have done it for 20 years and how most fanuc machines run. You set your tool height Tool1 1 height or H1 to the top of the part and Z0 to the machine zero. What yous saying is that milltronics calls out the top of the part the machine g54 z0?

Ox · Apr 1, 2009

frostbitevinnie said:
Yes all the tool lengths are neg. in the -50" to -60" range. Sure would be nice to simply input the actual tool length. Call me old fashioned but if I have a 6" tool I kinda like to put in -6" into my offset.

That is a recipe for disaster!

I would Shirley think that you could reset (or just bloody well SET - as in not finished by the MTB eh?) the Z home position to whatever the distance would be from spindle face to C/L of the 4th (assuming) upon homing. Z+24.000 or whatever. Possibly much bigger if your currently running 50" offsets? :eek:

Simply sounds to me like that param got skipped for whatever reason. ??? If it was Fanuc I could prolly find the param for it - but no idea on the Milltronics. HOWEVER - If you have access to the param list - you could skip through it and possibly even find it. I would think it would have fields for X,Y,Z, and A (assuming) and it appears that all fields must currently be set to 0. ???

Link to machine page

Yeah - 61" of Z would make for some LONG negative tool offsets eh? :bawling:

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SchneiderMachine · Apr 1, 2009

My offsets on my vertical are generally in the 12-13 in. range. All negative and that's pretty much what I've been used to. On mine Z0 is machine home zero and it's pretty much at the limit switch.
Also, if Vinnies offsets are large, the big numbers could be because it's in metric mode, yes???
60 mm is 2.3622 inches

Dave

P.S. It really isn't as hard as it's being made out to be, really,,,,,, it's not.

Ox · Apr 1, 2009

What for vert doo you have?

I had pos offsets even on my old knee mill and have never ran a bed mill that didn't have the home (top) Z position as Z24.000 or whatever the distance from the nose to the table was... :confused:

Maybe this is common on a Milltronics?

Even if it is - I hafta think it's changable... ???

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SchneiderMachine · Apr 1, 2009

Partner 6, Centurion 5 control (Cent 7 isn't any different I believe)
When the machine homes it hit's the limit switch, yes? That is default Z0 in all 54 available offsets, it will never change unless I tell it to. But why would I want to change it. If I pick up tool 1 and touch the top of the part and I push tool zero, it will ask what number, I tell it 1, it will put -11.8776 in the register, do the same with the next tool, yada, yada. Now at the end of the program if I type in G0G49Z0, the head will go to it's highest position, the tool will be safely outta the way. I seem to like it that way, works well I think. But, YMMV of course.
Come to think of it, My old B-Port Boss9 was the same way although it was an incremental offset and if I remember correctly so was a Yasnac MX1 I used to program (20 yrs ago)

Dave

Ox · Apr 1, 2009

Doo you hafta touch off every tool on each new job?

Does everyone running Milltronics doo it this way?

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

wcopley · Apr 1, 2009

I run 2 centurion 7's all I do is use a 3" gauge block hit z tool and type in 3. then it asks for diam very simple and easy it knows where its at this is on verticals also
Bill

moonlight machine · Apr 1, 2009

Milltronics tech guys are very helpfull. Every time I'm having an old machinist moment they tell me the easy way out.

SchneiderMachine · Apr 2, 2009

Yup, it is a drawback of that system but, tools change constantly so it's not a big deal to me anyway. I can set 12 tools in about 12 min. 1 tool a min, provided they are in tool holders already and all I have to do is load them in the turret.
Dave

Ox said:
Doo you hafta touch off every tool on each new job?

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Cincy CNC · Jan 11, 2013

Bill,
I run a VM30XP with a Centurion 7. I am trying to find a way (possibly a parameter?) to increase my tool library from 99 to 199. Have you ever tried this? Or know if it's possible? I have 90 tools that I keep set up at all times. That leaves me with 9 slots for odds-and-ends tools. I have enough holders that I can set up alot more 'permanent' tools, but dont have enough offsets. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Tony

SeymourDumore · Jan 12, 2013

Ox said:
What for vert doo you have?

I had pos offsets even on my old knee mill and have never ran a bed mill that didn't have the home (top) Z position as Z24.000 or whatever the distance from the nose to the table was...

Maybe this is common on a Milltronics?

Even if it is - I hafta think it's changable... ???

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ox, I fail to see your logic.
I'd say the distance from nose to table is not 24.000 inches, rather -24.000 inches!
I mean in your programs everything below the Z0 is in negative Z, then why shouldn't everything below your max Z travel ( machine home ) not be in negative Z?

My mills home out at max positive travel of X, Y and Z, so they can logically only move in negative Z with respect to home. ( upper right corner of envelope )
All of my lathes home out at max travel of X and Z, so they can locically only move in negative Z with respect to home. ( far right, farthest away )
My EDMs home out in the max negative travel of X and Y, but at the max positive travel of Z. Consequently they can only move in positive X and Y, but negative Z.

And I don't know when did Milltronics change their software to allow this, but my MB-19 does have negative -Z for tool lengths and it can be separated from the workoffset, so no, you do not
need to re-pick tools for each new job. Works just like a Haas, Fanuc or Mits.

Ox · Jan 12, 2013

Well, in my world, everything above the Ref Work Plane is +.

Everything above the Z fixture offset would be positive.

A part that is 3" off the table would have a 3" offset.
Everything above that is positive.

Positive Fix offset.
Positive tool offset.
Positive home value.

All whatchew like....

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

HuFlungDung · Jan 12, 2013

I've never really thought of tool length offsets as being related to the actual tool lengths (but I suppose it is a logical method). Maybe because I cut my cnc teeth on a lathe, physical tool lengths are basically meaningless, everything is related to a distance of a master tool from machine zero or a part zero. I think the same way about mill tool offsets: they are the distance to bring all the tool datums to one reference plane. Which plane and where it is, is the question that needs to be settled when more than one guy is running a machine.

Ox · Jan 12, 2013

When you buy a Cat holder, they are generally referanced by their length to guage line.

Like a stub, 2", 4" etc length.

My mill tooling is always offset to actual length from the guage line.
If you set your tools offline - I wouldn't know where else to guage your length to?

(could be redundant reading as I have not went back to read what was posted here 3 yrs (?) ago.)

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Help!! Milltronics Tool Height Offsets

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