OKUMA M560V GENOS Mill

Does anyone have any feedback/experience with the OKUMA M560V GENOS Mill?
Just got some info on them Friday and they look pretty good.

csharp said:

Does anyone have any feedback/experience with the OKUMA M560V GENOS Mill?
Just got some info on them Friday and they look pretty good.

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We have one. It has the optional 15k spindle and a 4th axis. It is a great machine and we are very happy with it.

Thanks, I saw some youtube videos but they are only going to show the positive side of them.

csharp said:

Thanks, I saw some youtube videos but they are only going to show the positive side of them.

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There are a lot of positives to the machine. The good Okuma control, the bridge type construction. We have a 1000 psi TSC unit that works well.

The only downside I see is if you are doing a lot of hi speed contouring. The Hi Speed cutting function on the Okuma is called Super Nurbs and its a $22K option. We have machines with and without Super Nurbs and those that have it really move. The machines come standard with "Hy Cut Pro" which Okuma says does the same thing but in my experience does not work anywhere near as good as Super Nurbs.

G-Auto said:

There are a lot of positives to the machine. The good Okuma control, the bridge type construction. We have a 1000 psi TSC unit that works well.

The only downside I see is if you are doing a lot of hi speed contouring. The Hi Speed cutting function on the Okuma is called Super Nurbs and its a $22K option. We have machines with and without Super Nurbs and those that have it really move. The machines come standard with "Hy Cut Pro" which Okuma says does the same thing but in my experience does not work anywhere near as good as Super Nurbs.

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I am getting a quote to today. I must say they appear to be more affordable than I had thought.

I thought they were an entry level like the GENOS lathes, but these are still make in japan.

csharp said:

I am getting a quote to today. I must say they appear to be more affordable than I had thought.

I thought they were an entry level like the GENOS lathes, but these are still make in japan.

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I'd be interested to know what price they quote you.

So, what's the verdict, reasonable $ ?

I think they are reasonable, they list $139K starting price for the 560.

I had one quote with a chip conveyor and hopper, a renishaw probe system for less than the list price.

I would PM you the price but don't think it is good to post. Seriously considering ordering one next week.

I have spent the last couple of months shopping hard for a new machine. Wanted a Bridgeport/Hardinge GX1000 with the 12K spindle, but only 10K models are in stock. Almost pulled the trigger on a Doosan DNM 500, great machine, but service comes from three hours away and I am cheap and don't want to pay that much for travel. I went to the Houstex machine tool show on Wednesday, saw the Toyoda 1165 and really liked it and requested a quote (it is Friday night and I still don't have it). On the way out I ran into our Hartwig rep (the Okuma and Hardinge dealer that covers Austin) and told him that we really liked them and the service that we got from them for out other Okumas, we were going to have to go with either the Doosan or Toyoda because of the lack of a 12K spindle model being in stock. He asked if he could submit a proposal for a Genos before we pulled the trigger on something else, and came through first thing Thursday morning with an offer for a 15K spindle model that sealed the deal. Looks like we got the financing lined out today and should have a new machine on the floor in less than a month.

The Hyundai KF5600 Significantly Out-Specs

csharp said:

Does anyone have any feedback/experience with the OKUMA M560V GENOS Mill?
Just got some info on them Friday and they look pretty good.

Click to expand...

See the comparison at https://www.hillaryinc.com/index_htm_files/comp-okuma-genos-m560v-vs-hyundai-kf5600.pdf

More at Doosan Samsung VS Versus Hyundai Wia CNC

Hope this helps

Everything I have heard on the M560 has been positive. Caveats are the same for all machines, crash the daylights out a 15k spindle and it will ruin your day if you have to pay to fix it...the same with about any big plus 15k high power spindle regardless of manufacturer.
The osp control is pretty powerful. The super nurbs I think is 2000 block look ahead and enhanced accel/ decel control. If you are drilling holes you don't need it.. most standard 2.5 axis work you don't need it- if you are doing injection mold cavities in freeform...and wanting all you can get- the justification is present for it.

I'd love to have one.... if I was spending someone else's money I probably already would.

It was on my list for a machine upgrade around the end of the year, against a Robodrill or Speedio. The $139k price is pretty good, with all the minor stuff you would want. TSC and Probing are about what other MBTs want for such options. SuperNURBS is about half of what someone called it out on here...

Where it goes sideways for me was on the 4th axis. Basically *double* the price to add the same size rotary as Brother or Fanuc want to throw one on their machines. By the time I had ticked all the options boxes I wanted, I could almost buy two optioned out Speedios. I've got 6 different products in the pipeline right now, and I was weighing the two (very different types) of machines on how the split between production and prototyping went, but that was assuming much closer pricing. As much as I would love to work in a big machine with that lovely OSP control and more tools, I'm probably going to stay in the BT30 Mafia for the time being...

hmi_texas said:

See the comparison at https://www.hillaryinc.com/index_htm_files/comp-okuma-genos-m560v-vs-hyundai-kf5600.pdf

More at Doosan Samsung VS Versus Hyundai Wia CNC

Hope this helps

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IME, spreadsheet comparisons like these are one of the least useful methods to compare real value in a machine tool.

hmi_texas said:

See the comparison at https://www.hillaryinc.com/index_htm_files/comp-okuma-genos-m560v-vs-hyundai-kf5600.pdf

More at Doosan Samsung VS Versus Hyundai Wia CNC

Hope this helps

Click to expand...

Right... Show me your machine keeping pace with the Okuma, and let"s see the surface finish & dimensions when they get done.

Go ahead, we'll wait...

What are spindle options in north america?
In europe I think now standard spindle is 15K
Strong point of okuma is geometrical accuracy. Most manufacturers do not publish geometrical tolerances.
What I have seen is lately in new c-frame machines typical Z-X or Z-Y perpendicularity tolerance be at 0,015mm/300mm
Our case we have about that tolerance requirements in parts. To as cheaper c-frame machine is no go.

R: Mika

G-Auto said:

The only downside I see is if you are doing a lot of hi speed contouring. The Hi Speed cutting function on the Okuma is called Super Nurbs and its a $22K option. We have machines with and without Super Nurbs and those that have it really move. The machines come standard with "Hy Cut Pro" which Okuma says does the same thing but in my experience does not work anywhere near as good as Super Nurbs.

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hy G many problems related to high speed is the toolpath being generated with small arcs, or however, thus too many segments; a good software output should eliminate this problem

if the toolpath is complex, than you need some functions on the control, so to be more productive, etc

SuperNurbs from Okuma handles such things in 3D, not only highspeed 2D, and is not there to boost the highspeed, but to deliver nice 3d complex shapes ... Supernurbs will aproximate your toolpath and cut something arround it in a given error ... thus the machine will move among some geometrical entities that are not the one that the program has, but also are not to far from it

HiCut adjusts transition between 2 consecutive movements ...

so for high speed milig :
... a good optimized path from CAM + Hicut may be enough
... a low level CAM requires SuperNurbs

csharp said:

Does anyone have any feedback/experience with the OKUMA M560V GENOS Mill?
Just got some info on them Friday and they look pretty good.

Click to expand...

find someone that has that cnc ... go and see make some friends, etc ... kindly !

gkoenig said:

Where it goes sideways for me was on the 4th axis. Basically *double* the price to add the same size rotary as Brother or Fanuc want to throw one on their machines. .

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playing devils advocate here.... did they change to the newer " high column spec" that raises the z range ( same travel but has real estate under for 4th axis, pallet changer, etc)? It may be worth a question. machines with 20 inch z travel and a 4th can get tight on tool lengths when half your z is tied up with automation..... depending what you are doing with it.

WILLEO6709 said:

playing devils advocate here.... did they change to the newer " high column spec" that raises the z range ( same travel but has real estate under for 4th axis, pallet changer, etc)? It may be worth a question. machines with 20 inch z travel and a 4th can get tight on tool lengths when half your z is tied up with automation..... depending what you are doing with it.

Click to expand...

The high-column is an option - not part of the standard M560 spec. Even if it were free, it's not for everyone. The Z-axis on that high-column option doesn't have more range of motion, it's just lifted. So if you have 4th axis gear or really tall parts, might be necessary. But keep in mind that the standard M560 can't put the spindle nose on the table - so the high-column model will make Z-min even farther from the table. Not practical if you're machining thin stuff down close to the table.

I got my M560 in Dec '16 - love it. Hasn't failed to meet my expectations in any way.

I think the 15k spindle is standard - it didn't cost me anything additional...

I got mine with a 500 psi ChipBlaster TSC unit. Cheaper than the Okuma 200 psi TSC option... You probably already know this, but using the TSC generates a very fine mist that eventually turns into a cloud hanging over the machine. Was giving me headaches, so I just picked up a FilterMist coolant separator. Still collecting all the pieces parts to get it installed - but there is a nice factory installed removable rectangular panel on the upper right side of the cabinet that should be perfect for it. No need to cut into the walls. I just ordered a contactor/breaker set to enable the FilterMist to be switched/powered from the control cabinet, so will post photos of that when done.

A couple very minor annoyances - no standard air gun or coolant sprayer... Gosiger says these are very expensive options... So have had to rig my own. See post from @grdnanthy in this thread for details - both he and I have an extra unused coolant pump (lift pump for Okuma TSC-prep option) that can be controlled by an extra M-code for a wash gun:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/okuma/genos-m560-coolant-spray-gun-options-333437/

And see post from @boost in the same thread for awesome modifications to plumb the air/coolant to the front of the machine.

Another issue that cost me $1500 - here in King County WA, electrical inspection requires that the equipment be UL-listed (or equivalent), but they don't accept foreign certificates. The Okuma is not UL-listed... So in order to pass county/state inspection, had to pay to get a UL-based "Field Evaluation" done. Also required attaching a handful of additional warning stickers to both the Okuma and ChipBlaster units... Shame on Gosiger, because they weren't at all surprised when I asked them about this, but they never bothered to tell me...

Another dealer annoyance... Gosiger mounted my Renishaw tool probe on the back right corner of the table. When I was looking at it during install, location made sense to me too. Since the spindle can't reach the table, the probe sits up a few inches on a cylindrical mount. Well, because of where the coolant nozzles are located on the right side of the spindle head, the Renishaw will collide with the coolant LocLine hoses if I have 4 vises in the table (currently only have 2 in the middle). Should have had them install the Renishaw on the left side as Okuma suggests - again, something they should know from experience...

I love how the chips / coolant drain to the back of the machine - but the coolant sump could use a finer mesh filter tray. Between the chip conveyor and provided tray, all big chips get strained out ok. But I already have a tank full of fines floating around. There are fine screens in front of the pumps, but that still leaves me no easy way to get the fines out of the tank... Need to rig something up...

Ok, last annoyance - the flood coolant lines are a bit archaic. The 4 LocLine nozzles work fine for the right side of the spindle. But they are useless for the left side of the spindle... you can buy extensions to try to direct coolant around the side, but real;y need to watch placement to avoid collisions with the tool changer arm. Also, the rapids are so blindingly fast on this machine that really long LocLines tend to move and lose alignment. Would be nice to have a coolant ring like the Haas or coolant nozzle fittings around the perimeter of the spindle.

Last but not least - I really love using the Okuma control... Most everything makes sense. Unlike other machines I have driven, it is much more efficient. Far less button pressing or key turning to do simple obvious stuff.

I'm just happy to be part of the dual column master race When you really start pushing the 560 to remove stainless or tool steel the dual column design shines. Actually it works really well for surfacing too. OSP is awesome, Okuma build quality is great, but it's the design that matters. Makino F mills are similar, I actually saw a brochure on a line of Hwacheon mills that use the same layout. I think that is the biggest benefit of the machine, and enough HP to take advantage of it.

The buffering of the entire program makes it fast as hell with no real "look ahead" required, but reloading after a programming change on the control takes some getting used to. I guess it does have look ahead but it's basically 150K lines..or whatever adds up to 2 MB of code.

XD341 said:

I'm just happy to be part of the dual column master race When you really start pushing the 560 to remove stainless or tool steel the dual column design shines. Actually it works really well for surfacing too. OSP is awesome, Okuma build quality is great, but it's the design that matters. Makino F mills are similar, I actually saw a brochure on a line of Hwacheon mills that use the same layout. I think that is the biggest benefit of the machine, and enough HP to take advantage of it.

The buffering of the entire program makes it fast as hell with no real "look ahead" required, but reloading after a programming change on the control takes some getting used to. I guess it does have look ahead but it's basically 150K lines..or whatever adds up to 2 MB of code.

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Curious if anyone looked/quoted/compared against the Doosan NX-II series machines - similar dual column layout, 20k spindle?