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Opinion on Kitamura Mycenter 3xd

Jorgo

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Sechelt BC
I'm looking at buying my first brand new VMC in the next couple weeks and the Kitamura Mycenter 3XD seems to fit what I need to perfection and the price is right. For piece of mind I priced out a Haas VF2 to compare and after I optioned it out it only came a few thousand under the Kitamura . I'm just wondering if anyone out there has one or has run one or seen one and what their opinion is on it or something close. I know its a Taiwan made machine and I'm not worried about that. 30x20x20 travels, 12000rpm big plus spindle, Crazy rapids compared to my old VF2.
Jordy
 
What controller? Yasnac Kitamuras used sell for a lot less than similar models with Fanucs, I unfortunately know why, stay away from the Yasnac controlled models.
 
Its their Arumatik-Mi control based on a Mitsubishi.

I don't have anything useful to offer.

I always thought it was cute that ArumatiK KitamurA (i.e. ArumatiK is Kitamura backwards... Probably everybody knows that).

Great that some of their models are being made in Taiwan and hence super price point (hopefully not a partial re-badge, but on the hand who cares?).

On some of the kitamuras/different models, its nice to see the use fine pitch ball screws and claim / at least attempt to stay on the edge of 40 millionths for linear positioning (on some of the models).

I got cold feet with or from the Kitamuras simply because where I am is literally the furthest point on the planet from most supply chains that originate in the far East. However I see a new dealer / handler for Kitamura has appeared in Denver Area... Hmmm.

I really like the "Passion" of the CEO of Kitamura.

So do you have a good vendor/outfit that can really support that machine well for you no matter what happens? [Not that anything super bad is going to happen; I just felt a little bit insecure about the control and being 5800 miles away from any direct source of information to lean on (My Japanese or Mandarin is non existent lol)... BUT that's not to say there aren't good people supporting these products somewhere in Canada and USA.

35HP spindle :-)
 
Well, it's a Kitty. Start searching for a used one, and you will quickly notice that there aren't a lot out there. To me, that would indicate their expected life.
For what it's worth, I'm also looking at the 3XD. In fact, I'm heading down to the distributor on Monday the 27th for a cutting demo. I'd be more than happy to circle back around and share my thoughts

Just curious, what did they (Kitamura) shoot you for prices? When I optioned out a VF2 I was about 10k under the Kitty. The kitty, with Spindle probe, TSC, Conveyor...and that's it, came to 90k. The Haas got me all the same plus a table probe for 80ish


EDIT:
And it's a cross-roller type machine. Rapids are pretty damn quick (1900ipm) and it can cut up to 787ipm. It is only a 24 tool carousel (like the VF2) but there is a 30 tool option
 
Well, it's a Kitty. Start searching for a used one, and you will quickly notice that there aren't a lot out there. To me, that would indicate their expected life.
For what it's worth, I'm also looking at the 3XD. In fact, I'm heading down to the distributor on Monday the 27th for a cutting demo. I'd be more than happy to circle back around and share my thoughts

Just curious, what did they (Kitamura) shoot you for prices? When I optioned out a VF2 I was about 10k under the Kitty. The kitty, with Spindle probe, TSC, Conveyor...and that's it, came to 90k. The Haas got me all the same plus a table probe for 80ish


EDIT:
And it's a cross-roller type machine. Rapids are pretty damn quick (1900ipm) and it can cut up to 787ipm. It is only a 24 tool carousel (like the VF2) but there is a 30 tool option
I was wondering how much Kitamura is left in the Taiwan machine with the super price point. It doesn't look like the same spindle either, which would make me ask about the ball screws too. Please do share your findings.
 
Well, it's a Kitty. Start searching for a used one, and you will quickly notice that there aren't a lot out there. To me, that would indicate their expected life.
For what it's worth, I'm also looking at the 3XD. In fact, I'm heading down to the distributor on Monday the 27th for a cutting demo. I'd be more than happy to circle back around and share my thoughts

Just curious, what did they (Kitamura) shoot you for prices? When I optioned out a VF2 I was about 10k under the Kitty. The kitty, with Spindle probe, TSC, Conveyor...and that's it, came to 90k. The Haas got me all the same plus a table probe for 80ish


EDIT:
And it's a cross-roller type machine. Rapids are pretty damn quick (1900ipm) and it can cut up to 787ipm. It is only a 24 tool carousel (like the VF2) but there is a 30 tool option

I got 95k quoted but When I add the 4th axis to both the Kit came in almost the same as a haas and the haas doesn't come with big plus and a couple other things. I was never actually considering a Haas and didn't get an official quote, I was just using it as a benchmark for cost based off their website. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. The nearest one to me is San Jose which is a bit of a trek from Vancouver. I'll definetely be going to see one before I sign the papers though.
 
Sorry, I've been doing this for so long that carousel is the word I learned a long time ago and it stuck with me. Magazine, I should have said
It is a Mitubishi back-end control, apprently my Fanuc programs will run with little to no modification.
The salesman was adamant about it being all Kitamura parts, just Taiwanese labor. The proof will be in the pudding, I suppose. But, it does weigh a full ton more than a VF-2, so that speaks to something, I suppose.

Stacking this machine against my Mori Duravertical, so I at least have a good enough sense of what it should sound and look like, build and cutting quality
 
Timely thread for me. Might "have to" have a min 40inch machine soon. Just got the invite to the demo day myself.
Don't know the different models myself but that control. If I go it will be to play with that control and all of its foibles.
Normally I would just order a VF4 and be done but that new control has me "concerned" :skep:
Gary
 
So, the 27th was a day of a lot of traveling or me. I first went to a Mori open house (NH) to look at their CMX. Yuge machine. No way was that fitting in my shop without extensive surgery. I made it out of there and went down to Packard Machinery in Wesford MA. where I had an 11:30 demo scheduled.

The machine is super compact, no other way to say it. Yes, it has 30" x 20" travels, but they really figured out how to trim off the excess footprint. The machine weighs 10k, so it doesn't appear that they reduced the casting.

Cutting: It takes a solid cut with no complaints. They had a 3" facemill buried .150", 60% stepover. 1500rpm and about 35ipm. Running around 25% motor load. They also were full width slotting with an Iscar facemill (square shoulder) about .150" deep as well. Not a peep out of it.

Criticisms, or things to consider:
1) Very small chip pan area. The chip pan is quite close to the bottom of the table. Included conveyor will need to be run frequently. None of this "clean it out at end of shift". But, it is M code capable, so just embed it in your program. There is also included chip flushing, so that is sweet

2) Table size. This is one area they were able to trim down on overall footprint. The table is not a lot bigger than it's travel. Why is this a criticism/consideration? I expect to mount indexers, 4th axis and tailstocks to the machine at some point, and it's always nice having them mounted in "unusable" territory, to best utilize the cutting window

3) Belt drive: Noisy at certain speeds. They were kind enough to ramp the demo machine up to cap (12k). We found that at certain breakpoints (8k, 9500) there were some harmonics in the machine sheet metal that rattled fierce. I think strategic use of stick-on neoprene pads at certain points will greatly reduce the noise.

4) M0 and M30 do NOT unlock the doors. Kitamura has not addressed this in the ladder (yet), so you either A)press the unlock button on control panel, or B) disconnect the door interlock. Personally, I'm not keen on bypassing safety, but I'm the shop owner and the legal risk is there. Since I currently work solo, I just might. Employees will require I lock it back up.

5) 24+1 tools. I was hoping to upgrade to the 40 tool option but that is no longer available. When they designed the 4XD, they decided to give that the 40 option and abandon the 3XD option. For what I do, I don't see many jobs where that will be a huge issue, so there's that...

Praises:
The Mitsubishi control (the JR. control is really Mits.) has a skin that you can turn on that emulates the look of a Fanuc. Either mode looks fine.
"Fish-eye" style coolant nozzles, so no loc-line to destroy. Although there is some on there, it's not 100% needed.
Fast rapids with no complaint. I've seen some machines where they way covers simply don't like being moved that fast. Not this machine.
Same pull-stud and programming as my Mori (yay for me)
Built like a brick outhouse.
Will fit through a standard garage door with only minor modification. The head completely disappears in the sheetmetal when it's in it's shipping position. Top of sheetmetal is 86", assuming it would be on a forklift just off the ground.
 
Oh, and I bought one. It's on order and will be in MA in a few weeks (stock in Chicago), but I won't take delivery until mid May
 
So, the 27th was a day of a lot of traveling or me. I first went to a Mori open house (NH) to look at their CMX. Yuge machine. No way was that fitting in my shop without extensive surgery. I made it out of there and went down to Packard Machinery in Wesford MA. where I had an 11:30 demo scheduled.

The machine is super compact, no other way to say it. Yes, it has 30" x 20" travels, but they really figured out how to trim off the excess footprint. The machine weighs 10k, so it doesn't appear that they reduced the casting.

Cutting: It takes a solid cut with no complaints. They had a 3" facemill buried .150", 60% stepover. 1500rpm and about 35ipm. Running around 25% motor load. They also were full width slotting with an Iscar facemill (square shoulder) about .150" deep as well. Not a peep out of it.

Criticisms, or things to consider:
1) Very small chip pan area. The chip pan is quite close to the bottom of the table. Included conveyor will need to be run frequently. None of this "clean it out at end of shift". But, it is M code capable, so just embed it in your program. There is also included chip flushing, so that is sweet

2) Table size. This is one area they were able to trim down on overall footprint. The table is not a lot bigger than it's travel. Why is this a criticism/consideration? I expect to mount indexers, 4th axis and tailstocks to the machine at some point, and it's always nice having them mounted in "unusable" territory, to best utilize the cutting window

3) Belt drive: Noisy at certain speeds. They were kind enough to ramp the demo machine up to cap (12k). We found that at certain breakpoints (8k, 9500) there were some harmonics in the machine sheet metal that rattled fierce. I think strategic use of stick-on neoprene pads at certain points will greatly reduce the noise.

4) M0 and M30 do NOT unlock the doors. Kitamura has not addressed this in the ladder (yet), so you either A)press the unlock button on control panel, or B) disconnect the door interlock. Personally, I'm not keen on bypassing safety, but I'm the shop owner and the legal risk is there. Since I currently work solo, I just might. Employees will require I lock it back up.

5) 24+1 tools. I was hoping to upgrade to the 40 tool option but that is no longer available. When they designed the 4XD, they decided to give that the 40 option and abandon the 3XD option. For what I do, I don't see many jobs where that will be a huge issue, so there's that...

Praises:
The Mitsubishi control (the JR. control is really Mits.) has a skin that you can turn on that emulates the look of a Fanuc. Either mode looks fine.
"Fish-eye" style coolant nozzles, so no loc-line to destroy. Although there is some on there, it's not 100% needed.
Fast rapids with no complaint. I've seen some machines where they way covers simply don't like being moved that fast. Not this machine.
Same pull-stud and programming as my Mori (yay for me)
Built like a brick outhouse.
Will fit through a standard garage door with only minor modification. The head completely disappears in the sheetmetal when it's in it's shipping position. Top of sheetmetal is 86", assuming it would be on a forklift just off the ground.

That's fantastic. Thanks for the review. I feel better about moving ahead on the financing now (which I was doing anyways but I feel better about it). I figure I'm pretty safe seeing as the only mill I've ever run is a 98 VF2. Almost anything is going to be better. I'll post back here too once I go see one myself.
Jordy
 
And if you are in the North East area of the US, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to recommend Packard Machinery, out of Westford Mass. Top notch responses to my questions and I was dealing directly with the owner. Family owned, 3rd generation, 75 years in business. Repping Kitamura for the last 29 years. Their "newest" service guy has been with them for 8 years. No flashy showroom or fancy suits
 








 
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