Opinions on a Haas VF-3 for light to medium operations

I am looking at buying a 1996 Haas VF-3 for my second VMC, and am trying to get a better grasp of where they fit into the range of machine tool quality/capability. From what I have read here and otherwise, you get what you pay for with a Haas. It is not a hefty, powerful machine but it runs and makes consistent parts. 90% of the time I'm running 1/4'' to 1/2'' endmills on HSM toolpaths, 500+ SFM and 20% radial stepover in carbon/alloy/stainless steels with occasional aluminum/brass. I would consider this medium-duty machining at most. I almost never run indexable cutters, and when I do they are not large diameter or long stick-out.

This would not have been my first choice for a new VMC, but it's local and the asking price seems good (They are asking $14,500, which seems to be lower than what similar machines on eBay are listed for). It's a 7,500 RPM spindle and has the 15 HP "high torque" spindle motor (taken with a grain of salt as it's a Haas). They are even willing to run it for me under power in their building, which is a big plus for me.

I am also aware that Haas' are made with mostly consumable parts. What are the most common parts to replace? What are the ballpark costs for parts?

Thanks in advance for your inputs. I'm a one man shop with one VMC right now and I don't want to fork over the money for a second that won't be of any significant benefit to my work.

I would check with the local Haas office to see if the control in that machine is still supported with parts. At this point some require complete replacement if something goes wrong.

A Haas of that vintage is junk for HSM toolpaths. I did some very limited programming for a competing shop with a '98, and I had to slow everything down to something like 150 or 175 IPM to get it to quit choking on code and banging around every corner. The cut you described in and of itself is fine, though.

By contrast, my '07 runs in the 350 IPM range with decent control of over/undercutting. It'll go faster, but the motion accuracy falls off incredibly quickly. I think the 2010+ vintage is supposed to be better yet.

Haas does not support that control or spindle drive at all ,,,, if it goes down your looking at close to the full machine price to ever get it back up and running ...

Matt is spot on about that old of control being slow at HSM toolpaths ,,, Even the 2015 haas controls with there HSM added are not all that fast ,,, I just ran a engraving program I wrote for my 2015 VF2SS and at about 100 ipm the letters started looking like crap ,,, I reposted it and ran it in my new doosan with the Fanuc and the letters looked nice up to about 130 imp and at that point it was a chip load thing and not a control thing ,,,, so glad I spent the $2,500 on the haas control so it could still not be as fast as a standard Fanuc

Thanks for the input guys. This is the type of info I needed. Given this and some other information I've found on the internet, I think I am going to pass on this machine. It just does not sound like it will be an efficient investment.

I was looking at some other options yesterday, and I'm getting pretty interested in a 1998 Mazak FJV-25. The price tag is certainly higher but it has some much more attractive features for me. I have quite a bit more research to do but this one looks like it would keep up with my needs.

Thanks guys!

IAmAlex said:

Thanks for the input guys. This is the type of info I needed. Given this and some other information I've found on the internet, I think I am going to pass on this machine. It just does not sound like it will be an efficient investment.

I was looking at some other options yesterday, and I'm getting pretty interested in a 1998 Mazak FJV-25. The price tag is certainly higher but it has some much more attractive features for me. I have quite a bit more research to do but this one looks like it would keep up with my needs.

Thanks guys!

Click to expand...

The FJV's are AWESOME machines... Had one where I used to work.. ROCK SOLID rigid as hell, FAST, deadly
accurate.. It was a '95 so had the carousel tool changer, that thing sucked giant hairy monkey balls..
I think by '98 it was a swing arm..

For 4 years, except for 2 hall effect sensors and tool change finger tool change fingers tool change fingers
tool change fingers tool change fingers, nothing really went wrong with it.

The BAD stuff.. Single speed 12k spindle, it had NOTHING for torque down low. 3/4" drill, you couldn't
pull more than .003 or .004 a rev.. The Fadal next to it would pull .012 and barely blip the load meter.

The tool retention fingers in the spindle, they wore out, Mazak wanted something like $2900 for a set..
I had 'em tigged up and spent about a half hour with a dremel tool and they lasted 4 years..

The F'n Spindle.. It shit the bed.. And this is what made ME, out on MY OWN, spending MY OWN money, decide
to go with Fadals.. The spindle was $11.5k, plus $11.5k core charge, plus shipping both ways, plus
$2700 to have it installed so that it would retain the warranty, which I think was only 7 months. I
left soon after but heard through the grapevine that the spindle shit the bed again 4 days out of warranty.

Awesome machine, and it was really reliable, but when it dad have a hiccup... It COST$$$$

Bobw said:

The FJV's are AWESOME machines... Had one where I used to work.. ROCK SOLID rigid as hell, FAST, deadly
accurate.. It was a '95 so had the carousel tool changer, that thing sucked giant hairy monkey balls..
I think by '98 it was a swing arm..

For 4 years, except for 2 hall effect sensors and tool change finger tool change fingers tool change fingers
tool change fingers tool change fingers, nothing really went wrong with it.

The BAD stuff.. Single speed 12k spindle, it had NOTHING for torque down low. 3/4" drill, you couldn't
pull more than .003 or .004 a rev.. The Fadal next to it would pull .012 and barely blip the load meter.

The tool retention fingers in the spindle, they wore out, Mazak wanted something like $2900 for a set..
I had 'em tigged up and spent about a half hour with a dremel tool and they lasted 4 years..

The F'n Spindle.. It shit the bed.. And this is what made ME, out on MY OWN, spending MY OWN money, decide
to go with Fadals.. The spindle was $11.5k, plus $11.5k core charge, plus shipping both ways, plus
$2700 to have it installed so that it would retain the warranty, which I think was only 7 months. I
left soon after but heard through the grapevine that the spindle shit the bed again 4 days out of warranty.

Awesome machine, and it was really reliable, but when it dad have a hiccup... It COST$$$$

Click to expand...

Wow, that's pretty pricey for a machine that's ~20 years old. From the pictures it looks like this one does still have the carousel tool changer, but it's a lot faster than other carousels I've seen. I'm surprised to hear that it's a single speed spindle. Around what speed would you say the torque started to drop off? I don't really run anything under 3000-4000 RPM.

On the spindle failure, it sounds like that was a total failure and a completely new spindle had to be put in? Are these "cartridge" type machines where the whole spindle just gets dumped and replaced, or would it make sense have the spindle repaired based on the specific issues?

IAmAlex said:

Wow, that's pretty pricey for a machine that's ~20 years old. From the pictures it looks like this one does still have the carousel tool changer, but it's a lot faster than other carousels I've seen. I'm surprised to hear that it's a single speed spindle. Around what speed would you say the torque started to drop off? I don't really run anything under 3000-4000 RPM.

On the spindle failure, it sounds like that was a total failure and a completely new spindle had to be put in? Are these "cartridge" type machines where the whole spindle just gets dumped and replaced, or would it make sense have the spindle repaired based on the specific issues?

Click to expand...

Integral spindle if I remember right. So the spindle is basically the center of the motor.

This was a '95, I don't know if they changed.. But after it shit the bed, the place I worked for
pulled it out and sent it off to an aftermarket spindle place... They sent it back, they couldn't do
it, they had to go back to Mazak. If they had one on the shelf, they swapped 'em out, or if
they didn't they rebuilt the one you sent in, same price...

3 or 4k it had plenty of power, it was down LOW where it had nothing.

The carousel.. Those fingers were $45 or $65 a set from Mazak, and they broke all the F'n time..
The guy we got the machine from was molding his own, and I said F'it and made some out of aluminum.
I don't know if it was just that machine, or all of them that had that problem.

Another fun problem with the carousel.. I'm sitting at home one night and my second shift guy
calls..

Him: "Hey the tool changer fell out of the machine"
Me: "You been drinking"
Him: "No I haven't, the toolchanger fell out of the machine, the only thing holding it up is wires"
Me: "OOOOOO kay.. I'll look at it in the morning"

Surer than shit, the carousel fell out.. The casting that held it broke. Mazak wanted $3500...
I went with the "bar stock" option and made my own for less than $100 in material, and maybe 6-8
hours.

Awesome machine, and it rarely broke, but when it did, it was always $$$$$$$.