Quote:
Originally Posted by psychomill
Swiss is on the track here.... been there, done that... a few times.
The deal here though, beyond what the machine can or can't do, the breakdowns alone are bad enough to stuff it back in their face. But, along with what Swiss is stating, be sure you can't get cornered about "running large tools" beyond the machine's published capabilities. Now, even that isn't set in stone. However, the less fuel you give them the better when it comes to action or otherwise.
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The sad reality is that there is little he can do at this point. My guess is that the dealer that sold this machine is probably barely solvent given the state of the economy nowadays. So you are pumping a dry well there. The dealer doesn't have the money to give back to them nor will they be able to lay their hands on it. The OP's company likely put anywhere from 5%-20% down on the machine. The lawyers will blow through that in no time. So a lawsuit won't get your money back and won't relieve you of your debt. Unless you can wait for years and years and make a case against a foreign buider that will stick. And that is making the assumption that the builder isn't tottering on the verge of bankruptcy.
If they signed off on it and are now making lease or loan payments they have that expense and are screwed. If the funds haven't been released from the finance company, bank, or leasing company, then simply don't release them. Sooner or later someone will show up to collect the machine or sue you for payment.
If you just stop paying on the lease/loan it's your credit that gets screwed and it doesn't hurt the dealer or builder in the least.
If you are in this situation the best deal might be to take them up on the offer of a replacement machine. You might be able to negotiate better terms with return priveleges or some sort of progress payments over 12 months.
Now I'm going to sound like a dick here but I've noticed that the way people buy machines has changed over the last 30 years. It used to be that the buyer did research. They knew the max weight of the part they need to machine. It's size. The biggest hole they needed to drill. The max chip section they needed to be able to take while turning, etc.
The buyers would evaluate the machines by their construction and specifications. When you did a demo 30 years ago the prospect would ask what size and class bearings were in the spindles. What king of iron were the castings made out of. The diameter and pitch of the ball screws. How big are the servo motors? How much axis thrust is there? How are the ways constructed? And on and on and on. On a big ticket item like a VTL, Boring Mill, and similar, they would also look into the finances of the dealer and builder. They would visit existing users or at the least talk to several. Maybe even pay for a test cut of their toughest part.
Nowadays the mentality is "How much?" and "How fast can I get it?" Or "I'll just buy it from this well known builder." when it should still be "Caveat emptor!"
Me personally? I wouldn't buy a VTL from Mazak until I did a lot of homework. Sure I know who they are, but what do they know about building large VTL's? As far as I know, they have less experience at it than the builder that sold the one the OP bought. And I would certainly be looking at niche builders who specialize in VTL's and not just at broad market builders that at some point decided to add a VTL to their offerings.
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