please, an example for a setup sheet ?

hello, please, would you share your template ( or an example ) for a cnc setup sheet ?

i would like to know how others organise their stuff

thank you

dany_boy said:

hello, please, would you share your template ( or an example ) for a cnc setup sheet ?

i would like to know how others organise their stuff

thank you

Click to expand...

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depends on type of part. often it is a piece of paper with part number, version number, program number name date of programmer at the top. then a sketch (sometimes done with a pencil ) or picture showing where zero is and some info on setup like size of parallels it sits on, shows vise jaws if overhanging on one side, etc. many have a tool list at least of tools not normally in the machine. many setup sheets include multiple operations or setups. if a fixture is used might be a picture of fixture so if looking for it you know what it looks like. might have fixture storage location stated. so if cabinet has hundreds of small fixture blocks its faster to find it if you know what drawer and what drawer compartment it is in
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larger parts may have picture showing how part is lifted with a crane or how flipped. some have picture if you open machine door a picture of what you will see.
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some are stored electronically in adobe acrobat reader format or microsoft powerpoint type of file. Powerpoint its easy to add a picture with a arrow and text box saying something.
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really depends of what parts you make and your shop. some who do not like using a computer may do everything with a pencil and paper and might just be a hardcopy in a file cabinet. cause of ISO regulations some shops its all electronic and at bottom has a name and date of it being approved for using.
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when non standard words or names are used they should be explained. for example if it says green tap the holes then explain what a green tap is. best thing is not to assume another will understand everything and do some extra explaining
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many setup sheets have warnings on them. if somebody had a problem making part might be a warning of what to look out for or recommendations on what to do. basically operator adds to setup info whatever he feels is needed. some setup sheets are or include a checklist or order of operations. it can sometimes cause problems if you forget to do something at the correct time. obviously $10,000. part might have more information on the setup sheet than a $10. part. a heavy 10 ton part can have considerable information and pictures on flipping it upside down

Here's what I've been putting on mine so far:

Part name, description of file numbers versus operations (can't look at programs on DNC on my machine).
Each program then has a drawing of the vise (or other) setup, the zero location, and the zero repeat method.
A list of tools, including pocket number in the programs and the minimum stickout (gauge length?) to avoid collision.
I also have a run time next to each operation so I can glance and know how much time I have before coming back to the machine.
I also have a few notes on what changes were made and why.

I only have a small number of products I'm making and I'm a one-man operation, so I use mine so I don't have to run back and forth between my office computer and the shop for things like tool numbers or where a zero is. I would put a lot more detail into them in a bigger operation. I'd also have stuff linked via QR code so guys could look the stuff up on their phones. Scan a code, watch a video on setup. I'd also (accredited QC system or not) want some kind of combined setup and batch record system, but my background is production chemistry and laboratory testing so I don't like leaving things undocumented or where they may be lost to time and memory.

another issue with setup sheets is file names and searching for them. it becomes more of a problem when you make thousands or tens of thousands of parts

hello, i am talking about long series ( at least 1 month duration )

DMF_TomB;3160521 said:

best thing is not to assume another will understand everything and do some extra explaining

Click to expand...

you are correct : more precise, i am talking about a "neutral" point of view, where the documentation is elaborated technical, impersonal

dany_boy said:

hello, i am talking about long series ( at least 1 month duration )



you are correct : more precise, i am talking about a "neutral" point of view, where the documentation is elaborated technical, impersonal

Click to expand...

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i dont use a template other than part name, revision or version level, program number, name date at top. and at bottom a name date of it being approved for use. the rest of setup sheet depends on what you are making and your shop. many shops have a actual drawing showing part in a fixture. other shops do a lot with just pencil and paper and its scanned into computer to save it, store it.
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bigger parts often have picture of how to rig for lifting with a crane, balanced so going in fixture easier. and how to flip part. usually need for parts heavier than ordinary person can lift around 40lbs or 20kg
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microsoft office powerpoint program easy to add picture and arrow and text to point something out on a setup. often picture is worth a 1000 words is the saying. but still need arrow and text box if something small in picture needs to be pointed out

We are perhaps a bit old-fashioned but a picture IS worth a thousand words. Every part we make has a manila folder containing latest revision inspection drawing, toolpath drawing or screenshot, hard copy of the program—and in unusual cases where the setup or fixturing might not be obvious, a photo of the setup.

And where needed the program has extensive notes written in, like "adjust chuck pressure to XXX so as not to crush the workpiece."

thank you all for your time

considering that a part may require several fixtures ( or several clamps ) - i don't know how to say exactly, but for each step i have 2 sheets : one for preparation and another for operation

preparation sheet ( for lathe ):
- tool, toolholder, brief about particular sticking out, how to measure the tool, and how to declare it on the cnc, turret post, alignment requirements
- material, chuck+jaws, live center, spindle liners, special fixture, etc

operation sheet :
- operation title, turret post, restart phrase
- dimension + tolerance + how to measure it + a number that helps locating the dimensions on a technical drawing
- for each dimensions is specified how to input the correction : classical offset , or through a parameter that changes the program coordinate ( so to avoid editing the program )
- sometimes i also specify the program value : trained operators can see if a corection is too big, or if it fluctuates unusual, so this helps as a prevention

when the program is loaded, it zeros automatically all required axis

at this moment, a snapshot of all offsets + axis zeros is created

during operation, offsets are monitorized, and program stops if values are not ok : this prevents errors caused by a wrong input, or by a tool that has been replaced with a longer one, etc

data logging is active in the background : this helps seeing how stable is each operation, and helps decide if it is better to increase the specs or not,based on a simple cost evaluation from the frequency chart of that operation; changes in specs are signifiant

a real problem with higher specs is that materials are not always uniform, and sometimes i have to use medium cutting specs, without knowing how many parts really require it

another problem is that same tools, from same vendor, are not always the same : for example a lot of inserts can take it, and another lot is a bit softer, even if it is the same product

cutting specs are changed via an interface, without stopping the program, so downtime is pretty minimal; the application logs each event

thank you

dany_boy said:

thank you all for your time

considering that a part may require several fixtures ( or several clamps ) - i don't know how to say exactly, but for each step i have 2 sheets : one for preparation and another for operation

preparation sheet ( for lathe ):
- tool, toolholder, brief about particular sticking out, how to measure the tool, and how to declare it on the cnc, turret post, alignment requirements
- material, chuck+jaws, live center, spindle liners, special fixture, etc

operation sheet :
- operation title, turret post, restart phrase
- dimension + tolerance + how to measure it + a number that helps locating the dimensions on a technical drawing
- for each dimensions is specified how to input the correction : classical offset , or through a parameter that changes the program coordinate ( so to avoid editing the program )
- sometimes i also specify the program value : trained operators can see if a corection is too big, or if it fluctuates unusual, so this helps as a prevention

when the program is loaded, it zeros automatically all required axis

at this moment, a snapshot of all offsets + axis zeros is created

during operation, offsets are monitorized, and program stops if values are not ok : this prevents errors caused by a wrong input, or by a tool that has been replaced with a longer one, etc

data logging is active in the background : this helps seeing how stable is each operation, and helps decide if it is better to increase the specs or not,based on a simple cost evaluation from the frequency chart of that operation; changes in specs are signifiant

a real problem with higher specs is that materials are not always uniform, and sometimes i have to use medium cutting specs, without knowing how many parts really require it

another problem is that same tools, from same vendor, are not always the same : for example a lot of inserts can take it, and another lot is a bit softer, even if it is the same product

cutting specs are changed via an interface, without stopping the program, so downtime is pretty minimal; the application logs each event

thank you

Click to expand...

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seems you have everything already setup. as for pushing max limits i record any reason for above average times and work on the causes. sudden tool failures can happen rarely say 2% of parts but can cause considerable problems. metal often has hard spots of slag in it. the oxidized or poorly mixed metal spots can damage cutting tools easily even if only grain of rice size. usually best to have a safety factor or not be pushing tools to max limits so there is some reserve for hitting small hardspots.
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example is a carbide drill if going 30 ipm and it saves say 2.0 hours over the year but requires 20.0 hours of rework from broken drill bit problems than the 30 ipm was not saving time but causing delays and extra tool replacement costs. the occasional problems when looked at and not ignored often running drill at say F15. might take 2.0 hours more by the end of the years but save 20.0 hours of rework.
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i call it "maytag" settings. the maytag repairman had such reliable machines the repairman's biggest problem is nothing to do. when feeds and speeds are made reliable then program just works without even occasional time consuming problems
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same with after program run having to recut something not in tolerance. often the manual restarts and recutting consumes say 100 hours by the end of the year. if program has extra added finishing cuts so no manual recutting it needed it might add 20 hours by the end of the year but save the 100 hours that was typically needed to manually recut stuff. this is what i mean by track the causes of what taking longer than average time and fixing the problems. often the occasional time consuming problems are not considered a big problem but when you record them often you can see it more clearly when you see problems happening many times over the months
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another problem is operator attitude if operator sees a part takes a average time of 10.0 hours last 100 times made if everything going ok and he sees he might finish in 9.0 hours he might slow down to make the average time. i have had to change the Excel work log to give average time the most recent last 10 parts made rather than the average of 100 parts before all the problems were corrected. then operator sees average time is 9.0 hours and does not slow down to make a what he sees is a longer average time. i have also increased feeds and speeds often 150% faster with no recorded problems but operator dont like the noise or is worried about sudden tool failures even though no increased tool failures are seen. if operators are all the same rank you can suggest things, show things are working ok many times but you cannot force or order somebody to do things. the human element or attitude can be hard to understand at times
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there is a saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force the horse to drink the water

I helped Marek develop this format and then he expanded on it with other customers. Detailed text and graphical representations of part, setup, and tool holder assemblies

NCreports - NCmatic

I use a simple excel document I made up which I fill out all the relevant information out in and add a couple pictures of the setup then print it out and laminate them which I keep in a folder with the machine. Im sure its very basic compared to other ones but it does everything I need it to so its perfect for what we do.
_Machining Center Setup Sheet - MASTER - Google Sheets

We keep general setup info on a program called jaw-cat. Any photos or videos we store on the hard drive in a directory setup for that job along with drawings, Edgecam files and programs.
All setups are saved by drawing number, revision and operation number.
The guys on the machine are expected to collect the setup information and we use templates to make sure stuff doesn’t get missed. Every time the job goes through the shop the setup sheet goes out with the drawings, program etc. That way if something is not clear the instructions get modified and the database updated.

I use an excel template.
In one tab, I have the tools needed for the part, with their ID, tool length, tool holder gage length, etc...
In another tab, I have each operation, with the tools used, stock size, and a screen-shot showing where is the origin.
I'm a small guy, and it works very well for me. Hope it helps!

I've used spreadsheets in the past to detail a job.
Being a 1 man shop most of the time, it turned out the detail on 90% of the jobs was not needed.
I do keep a bound notebook with each machine, cnc and manual that I record basic info when I run a part.
Date,prog# rev#,zero points and part orientation can sometimes be obvious till you set up a part backwards.
I also use the program itself in the first few lines to note X,Y, & Z start points and tool info.
My latest addition to setup would be my cell phone pic of the part in fixture/vice with the program number,date in Sharpie clearly visible. Pics transferred to part file in a dated folder.
Just stared doing this, will be interesting how it helps in the future.

I think the important thing is not to make the setup sheet a useful tool instead of cumbersome pile of paper or data.
If you end up not using the setup sheet to your advantage, you may as well not have one.

Excel spread sheet as a work log can contain setup info and help to record things.
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i record name date, job number, times at certain points running program and total time, measurements, confirmation things were done at certain times (order of operations) the most important thing to to record trends like often final bored hole is often .0005" smaller than test cut probably from cold coolant. often log is full of warnings about things. also times are useful so if i know i got 1.2 hours til next M0 i can do other stuff like other part setups
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the learning from past program runs can be the most valuable thing. it helps prevent mistakes. i had a boss who said anybody can make a mistake what are you going to do to prevent mistake from happening again
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often i have to tell iso inspector the work log is not a setup file rather i am recording who what when how and why. i am recording whats done in theory it should match setup info. obviously work log can have a link or clickable shortcut to the setup file which is standard for my stuff so i can view say how part is picked up by crane or what fixture looks like before i go looking for it. microsoft powerpoint is made for pictures and adding text and arrows. thats why its used to show things for business meetings
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work log is more valuable the most expensive or complex the part is

thank you for your replies

dstryr said:

I helped Marek develop this format and then he expanded on it with other customers. Detailed text and graphical representations of part, setup, and tool holder assemblies

NCreports - NCmatic

Click to expand...

nice job dstryr / thx

DMF_TomB said:

seems you have everything already setup. as for pushing max limits ...

Click to expand...

what i really need is a very customizable adaptive control : self adjusting feed + rpm, based on load value; definetly good when machining many parts

i know that those parameteres are deep under the hood, but if only i could reach them i may be able to deliver something nice :
... a drill increasing feed when there is a through hole : near the end it will go faster, without getting signifiant cutting edge wear
... remove the need for the operators to suddenly jump at the machine and adjust the potentiometer, because one part is made of harder material
... constantly comparing the actual load with a trial load, and adjusting specs spot on

dany_boy said:

thank you for your replies



nice job dstryr / thx



what i really need is a very customizable adaptive control : self adjusting feed + rpm, based on load value; definetly good when machining many parts

i know that those parameteres are deep under the hood, but if only i could reach them i may be able to deliver something nice :
... a drill increasing feed when there is a through hole : near the end it will go faster, without getting signifiant cutting edge wear
... remove the need for the operators to suddenly jump at the machine and adjust the potentiometer, because one part is made of harder material
... constantly comparing the actual load with a trial load, and adjusting specs spot on

Click to expand...

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i ran a Mazak that has afc or automatic feed control. you set limits on spindle load and thrust load for each tool. if a tool is getting dull and load too high it automatically reduces feed eventually to a settable minimum feed say 50% feed and if after 5 seconds the load is still too high it does a automatic feed hold.
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it takes a few seconds to react to load and small tools at less than 10% load limits it does react too good. background load not cutting anything can be over 5%......but it saved a dull tool melting or total tool failure and damaging part many a time. Mazak has a lot of other nice features as well as being easy to program

hi tom, okuma has also an adaptive function, but only for mills; i don't know about the reaction time

i need it for the lathe, and i would preffer an editable reaction time, with a minimal value <=0.1-0.5 seconds

maybe they will release this function also for lathes


pls, would you describe those " mazak nice features " ? thx