CNC Mill Choice

slowtwitch · Mar 24, 2011

Hello all, I'm in the process of getting a cnc mill. I have two candidates which are very local to me and in my price, size (wieght) and hp range.

One is a Tree Journeyman 325 and the other is a Fadal VMC 15. (

Currently, I'm using a R8 spindle manual mill and all my machining is strictly in 6061.

Since all my current tooling is R8 and these machines use cat 40, I'm kinda torn in which machine I should lean towards. The reason being, the Tree comes with a bunch of tooling. Where as the Fadal, has no tooling, but , it does have the atc.

Right now I'm use to doing my own tool changes, but, who knows...this atc stuff can become addictive

Is one machine better than the other???

thanks
pete

wrustle · Mar 24, 2011

slowtwitch said:
Hello all, I'm in the process of getting a cnc mill. I have two candidates which are very local to me and in my price, size (wieght) and hp range.

One is a Tree Journeyman 325 and the other is a Fadal VMC 15. (

Currently, I'm using a R8 spindle manual mill and all my machining is strictly in 6061.

Since all my current tooling is R8 and these machines use cat 40, I'm kinda torn in which machine I should lean towards. The reason being, the Tree comes with a bunch of tooling. Where as the Fadal, has no tooling, but , it does have the atc.

Right now I'm use to doing my own tool changes, but, who knows...this atc stuff can become addictive

Is one machine better than the other???

thanks
pete

ATC = You're making money doing something else while the machine does the work for YOU.

Best Regards,
Russ

scudzuki · Mar 24, 2011

While the lack of a tooling available with the Fadal is an issue, it can be solved with money gradually.
The ATC missing from the Tree (and I'm guessing no full enclosure either) will be a much bigger problem in the long run.

Joe

Bobw · Mar 24, 2011

I don't think there is a question there. Open, wet, flying chips, VS enclosure and a tool changer.

Tooling can be added gradually as you need it, you don't need 100 tool holders to start.

I wouldn't say an ATC is addictive, I'd say its necessary.

Think of all the things you could be doing instead of sitting there waiting to change tools. You could take a nap, you could waste time on message boards, get the next job set up, sit and stare at the floor that isn't covered with chips and coolant.

It's a no brainer.

jackal · Mar 24, 2011

+1 On all the above replies.

You can always add more tooling.

You can't add a tool changer & full enclosure to the Tree mill.

Well you could but,................ :rolleyes5:

You have to take pics of what you get, and show 'em to us.

JAckal

706jim · Mar 24, 2011

Even the slowest tool changer means that your machine can keep running when you aren't immediately available to attend to it.
I say get the machine with the ATC.

Dcrouch · Mar 24, 2011

I'd never get to check out this Forum if I didn't have an ATC!

Alloy Mcgraw · Mar 24, 2011

I'd add something, but everyone about summed it up. Do yourself a favor.

706jim · Mar 24, 2011

Alloy Mcgraw said:
I'd add something, but everyone about summed it up. Do yourself a favor.

LOVE your username!

Spencer in NH · Mar 24, 2011

I had a bed mill with a FAGOR controller which I replaced with a SHARP VMC with a 16-tool ATC.

No contest. Get the Fadal. It'll keep the shop clean, too.

TurboFabSupply · Mar 24, 2011

+1 on that this isn't even a question. VMC with ATC will make more money. You can get into cat 40 tooling starting a little under $50 each on eBay.

slowtwitch · Mar 24, 2011

Well it looks unanimous

ATC is the way to go. Also, a friend of mine just let me know about a Kitamura Mycenter 1, that may be available. Hopefully, i'll be able to take a look at it soon.

pete

Question Boy · Mar 24, 2011

The Kitamura is undoubtedly a higher class of machine than the Fadal, but also likely to be more expensive to maintain and repair. I'm guessing there are many more Fadals running in small shops than Kitamuras, so the Fadal knowledge base would be larger and easier to access. Just something to keep in mind.

QB

scadvice · Mar 24, 2011

Fadal.

I have a 15xt with a 4th axis. It's an easy machine to fix and there is a very large support base here and on that other site we do not talk about here... the "C##" something zon#. I'm not sure if you can fix the Kitamuras as cheaply and easy as the Fadal. No support group base out there I know of. Maybe a Kitamura supporter will comment. I know for sure parts are costly on them.

Any used machine you pick may have some problems and need some fixing done. So, it's better to plan on having to spend some time setting it up. Tooling is out there at the ebay auctions. I've bought some that way and others new.

I had good luck buying ten new tool holders (about 43 to 60 bucks each) from Shars.com but, I suggest checking the runout on any import tooling. We did and it was fine. Also the 40taper marks looked good after a 500 cycle tool holder changes on a job.

However we were not happy with a insert face mill we ordered and sent it back along with a couple of a 'indicol copys' :nono:

Steve

slowtwitch · Mar 27, 2011

how about a tree vmc 750

I hope I'm not being a pain in the butt by asking for advise on which machine to get. Just want to make sure i get something worthwhile. Anyway, I have also been directed to a 1996 Tree vmc 750. I'm going to inspect it this week.

The asking price is $7000, delivered into my garage. Is this a machine worth looking into. When I emailed the person selling it, I forgot to mention what size the spindle motor is. I know I'll find out tomorrow, but, does anyone have a guess as to what it is???

thanks for all the good help

pete

cnctoolcat · Mar 27, 2011

Google is your friend....

The Tree probably has a Vickers control, which I believe is an evolution of the older Cincinnati Milacron control. Maybe someone will chime in on the +/-'s of this control.

Most vmc's in this size range are gonna have 10-15 hp spindle motors. More than enough to handle 99% of anything you will cut with it.

But, like said, a good used Fadal is hard to beat.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Greg

slowtwitch · Mar 29, 2011

Well, I lost out on the Fadal and the Mycenter won't be available till June, but, I'm going to look at a 1991 Haas vf1. It looks to be in good shape and more importantly, in my price range and it's close to home

pete

bellinoracing · Mar 30, 2011

I am kinda in the same situation as you. I have wanted to get a machine for a couple years but didn't have the money or the place for one. But now we got a shop up and I ve got a decent amount saved so hopefully I will pick up something in the next couple months. Fadals are some of if not the cheapest machines out and you get what you pay for. We had one at work and it got used the least and required the most repairs. I think just about every month it needed new belts.

I heard basically nothing but good about tree and I was seriously considering one but I just can't let myself buy anything without a tool changer.

I think unless I find a perfect shape Tree for next to nothing I am going to go with a Haas, probably a vf 1. I have ran Haas before and they are good simple machines but the real selling point is unmatched support.

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