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The Post Processor Scam

M

martin_05

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
Valencia, CA, USA
Not sure how MasterCAM and others work. I'm getting setup again with CAMWorks. I bought it back in 2008 and haven't used it since 2010 after I closed my business. I had a VF3-SS back then.

So...I paid-up to renew my license and give it another try rather than going to, say, MasterCAM. Now I have a VF2. I need a post processor. And now I am told by GoEngineer it'll cost $750 to get the code.

Sorry, I'm incensed by this. What the F!

I can understand charging to configure a post processor for an oddball machine. I get that. No problem. Someone might have to devote some time to configure it. But for a Haas machine? Or any other common machine out there? This is nothing less than despicable to me. The CAM software ought to come out of the gate with a library of supported machines. As it installs it supports no machine. It has these generic post processors you can play with and that's it. Not happy at all. Yes, venting.

How is it with other CAM packages? I might consider switching just on the principle of it all. Getting CAMWorks years ago may have been a mistake as most people I know are using MasterCAM.


-Martin
 
I ran Camworks for a couple of years, boy was it painful. I can't imagine a CAM company that doesn't have a fully resolved (and free) post processor for the ten most common machines. Charging $750 is a sure way to really piss off a customer.

I am a huge fan of Mastercam, but since you are a Solidworks guy and are comfortable with the embedded CAM systems take a good look at HSMworks. If I wasn't running Mastercam, that is what I would use. I don't think I would run Camworks if it was free.
 
Mastrcam installs with many "generic" posts, a few of which are Haas specific. If you call mastercam, they will give you any specific post free if you do not need modifications. The only ones that charge are 3rd party like Posability and In House Solutions, for example. The installed posts are really all you need unless you want to see code output in a specific manner.

Paul
 
G00 Proto said:
I am a huge fan of Mastercam, but since you are a Solidworks guy and are comfortable with the embedded CAM systems take a good look at HSMworks. If I wasn't running Mastercam, that is what I would use. I don't think I would run Camworks if it was free.
Click to expand...

I've been questioning the use of integrated/embedded CAM software. I obviously understand the convenience of it being aware of changes in the model. Not sure how external CAM deals with this. At the same time, having integrated CAM doesn't follow the model of the engineer being responsible for design and machinist for making the part. At my day job we use Siemens NX for mechanical design and all the machine shops use MasterCAM (obviously in stand-alone mode). I can see the freedom this provides. One other advantage is that a machinist can't accidentally or intentionally change a design (which protects both parties involved in the process).

Interested in learning if there are compelling reasons to actually consider getting a non-integrated CAM package like MasterCAM.


Thanks,

-Martin
 
I feel your pain. I'm using an old, not-meant-for-my-machine, Mastercam post for my Brother Speedio that Yamazen was kind enough to let me use. It doesn't support some of my machine's capabilities though, and I wish I had one specifically for Brother Speedio. When I asked my Mastercam reseller about this, they said they didn't have one (WTF?), but could write one from scratch for $600. My thought is, what about the next guy with a Speedio that wants a Mastercam post -- does he have to drop $600 for that post?

As for the MTB, as great as Yamazen has been to me, I kinda sorta expected them to have an up-to-date post for ubiquitous CAM packages like Mastercam, one that would showcase all the capabilities of their machine.

Regards.

Mike
 
Shawnrs said:
You should be able to use the UPG and make a generic postprocessor.
Click to expand...

I just started to look at that. I was able to pull up the post file I had back in 2009 for my VF3. A quick look seems to indicate the only changes might be related to work envelope 30 x 16 x 20 vs. the VF3's 40 x 20 x 25 and max spindle speed, 8,100 vs 15,000.

If that's the case I might be set. I still don't like the idea that they charge for a post processor for one of the most popular machines in the world. Not cool.


Thanks,

-Martin
 
This is a touchy subject with me.. I use "x" software, not Mastercam. I needed a Fidia post many years ago, fine, they come free with our support package. The Fidia control is decades old, and surely I am not the only guy on this globe running this software with the Fidia control. So they start from scratch and make a custom one, well I am on revision 25 before I finally got what I need. Why in the hell don't they just use standard post and make a FEW tweaks for fucks sake. I understand they want to protect our company, and it's not fair to just give my custom post to JoeBlow down the road when they buy a machine after I did all the legwork, but come on, make it easier on yourself and at least start with something close from the get go. Now I am running a new Hermle, and guess what, I am on revision 19 and still counting. Sometimes I think they just want to keep a post guy employed.
 
martin_05 said:
I just started to look at that. I was able to pull up the post file I had back in 2009 for my VF3. A quick look seems to indicate the only changes might be related to work envelope 30 x 16 x 20 vs. the VF3's 40 x 20 x 25 and max spindle speed, 8,100 vs 15,000.

If that's the case I might be set. I still don't like the idea that they charge for a post processor for one of the most popular machines in the world. Not cool.


Thanks,

-Martin
Click to expand...

I Worked for a reseller 15 years ago and it was standard to charge money for a custom post processor. When I did training I would teach the class on the last day on how to make a generic post for their machines. Most cad/cam software that I used has that option to make your own posts. Camworks has the option to make a Haas post but if you want it customized you will have to pay for it. The UPG has the option to create a Haas post but how close it will be for your machine make take some tweaking. The UPG is basic and hard to understand unlike older software packages I used but I have built a few posts with it.
 
5 axis Fidia guy said:
Why in the hell don't they just use standard post and make a FEW tweaks for fucks sake.
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous. I can see it for oddball machines. For everything else these companies need to invest the time to develop a sensible starting point and even a few options from there. I can't believe they are charging every VF2 owner $750 to effectively reinvent the wheel. And, of course, you know very well that a company like GoEngineer has already produced posts for the VF2 so they are charging you full tilt to more than likely just email you a copy of an already existing post processor. This should cost exactly zero.

There's another side to this, which is the productivity hit. Shitty software that doesn't allow you to easily edit and configure your own post processor cost you money. Why? As someone pointed out earlier, they are on version 25 of their post processor. Each and every cycle back and forth with the VAR doing the editing means having to wait for the update (if it is important enough) and possibly making some changes to existing part programs.

Is a CAM program a CAM program if it doesn't have a way to support your machine the way you want to without bleeding more money out of you? Imagine if you had to pay money to create a resume with Microsoft Word. It can edit blank documents but if you want special formatting capabilities you have to pay $750 for a formatting processor. Useless.
 
Shawnrs said:
When I did training I would teach the class on the last day on how to make a generic post for their machines.
Click to expand...

What kinds of features typically deviated from a generic post processor? I guess I am trying to learn what people are asking for that is so complex that it requires spending hundreds of dollars to have someone use some secret software to make it happen for you.
 
Finegrain said:
As for the MTB, as great as Yamazen has been to me, I kinda sorta expected them to have an up-to-date post for ubiquitous CAM packages like Mastercam, one that would showcase all the capabilities of their machine.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised by this as well. You would think Brother, Mori, Okuma, Haas, etc. would all have post processors ready to go for whatever popular CAM program you are using.

Who's going to be a happier customer...
A) the guy who has to bandaid an existing post and 1) be worried all the time that some weird combo of things is going to cause a crash, and 2) not get the full umph from the machine (Brother G100 tool change for example), or...

B) the guy who installs an approved, proven post for that exact machine, make code and make worry free, fast parts.
 
martin_05 said:
Interestingly enough, as maligned as the software seems to be in some circles, BobCAD seems to have the right approach:

CNC Machine Post Processors | CAD/CAM Software | BobCAD-CAM | BobCAD-CAM

That is: Library of free post processors and, sit down for this one, custom changes are free as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but their software sucks.. So..

Autodesk CAM | Post Library <- there's the Autodesk HSM post library. Everything in there is freely available, and minor post tweaks are free as well. The same post processor works with HSMWorks, Fusion, and Inventor HSM.
 
martin_05 said:
What kinds of features typically deviated from a generic post processor? I guess I am trying to learn what people are asking for that is so complex that it requires spending hundreds of dollars to have someone use some secret software to make it happen for you.
Click to expand...

You have a VAR problem, Martin.
Not a post problem.
My own personal experience with Hawk Ridge can only be rated as excellent.
Others may have had a different experience with them but I doubt it.
 
I'm using InventorHSM, so like,Rlockwood says, it's free. Plus it's written in Java ish, so you can modify yourself if so inclined.
 
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