Precision Levels for small VMC Alignment- Which to buy?

RedneckPhysics · Feb 17, 2017

Hi All,

I recently stumbled upon a fantastic procedure for getting to a great starting point for precise alignment of my Tormach 770. I'm sure many of you have heard of it or tried it... it basically uses a precision level to "map" the torsion that may be present in the base casting about the y-axis for correcting the base stance to be like the factory's 3-point setup when assembling.

From various sources, I've seen that master precision levels work the best (anything that's capable of better than ~0.001" in 12"). I've been able to borrow a low-end Starrett 98 machinist's, and magnify the vial for a little more precision in determining bubble movement. It works, but it's not convenient at all.

In looking at levels that might approach that level of sensitivity, but not break the bank (Here's an example), I've found a few imports on sites such as MSC that could potentially work.

Does anyone have experience with import Inspection Block levels?

This one looks somewhat promising... it's a Japanese import... I might trust it a bit more than Chinese-made instruments, but it's still an unknown.
8 Inch Long, .5 Graduation Sensitivity 273 - MSC

Or perhaps a French import?: 8 Inch Long, .5 Graduation Sensitivity 2352763 - MSC

If those can't be trusted as far as you could throw them... what's one worth buying, but under $800 or so?

Thanks,

Mike

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2017

RedneckPhysics said:
Hi All,

I recently stumbled upon a fantastic procedure for getting to a great starting point for precise alignment of my Tormach 770. I'm sure many of you have heard of it or tried it... it basically uses a precision level to "map" the torsion that may be present in the base casting about the y-axis for correcting the base stance to be like the factory's 3-point setup when assembling.

From various sources, I've seen that master precision levels work the best (anything that's capable of better than ~0.001" in 12"). I've been able to borrow a low-end Starrett 98 machinist's, and magnify the vial for a little more precision in determining bubble movement. It works, but it's not convenient at all.

In looking at levels that might approach that level of sensitivity, but not break the bank (Here's an example), I've found a few imports on sites such as MSC that could potentially work.

Does anyone have experience with import Inspection Block levels?

This one looks somewhat promising... it's a Japanese import... I might trust it a bit more than Chinese-made instruments, but it's still an unknown.
8 Inch Long, .5 Graduation Sensitivity 653273 - MSC

Or perhaps a French import?: 8 Inch Long, .5 Graduation Sensitivity 2352763 - MSC

If those can't be trusted as far as you could throw them... what's one worth buying, but under $800 or so?

Thanks,

Mike

.
.
Starret 98 level at .004" per 10" per line (.005per foot) is for rough leveling to get to .001" per 10"
.
actually the cheapest precision levels i saw were .0002" per 10" which is usually so sensitive you are off the scale and cannot use it til its rough leveled
.
Frame level i bought in China for $20 and i took Starret 98 level vial off and added to the frame level. this way i could rough level and finish level with same Frame level.
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note adjustment knob squeezing rubber oring. calibration literally takes seconds to do. reverse level and adjust so get same reading. i have added that feature to many levels the past 30 years
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beware the salesman selling you a .0001" per 10" level. normally it is useless to use as its always off scale 99.999% of the time.
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precision levels in China normally $30 i got one for $20 cause store was not selling it and wanted to get rid of it. i often have to use petroleum jelly to keep it from rusting. not good to put in box with nothing to protect from rust

riabma77 · Feb 17, 2017

Do you need it brand new?
I bought my Starrett 199 in ebay for about half the price, and I send it to calibrate. It works perfectly fine.

DMF_TomB · Feb 17, 2017

wyler has got the biggest precision level catalog i ever saw
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High-precision spirit levels
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without a doubt i just read catalog in awe or wonder at the selection

Mud · Feb 17, 2017

I bought one of these for about $75 on ebay, I'm quite happy with it. I'm even thinking about buying another so I can watch X and Y at the same time. The ground finish on the bottom is coarse, but it prints flat on a surface plate.

fmari --MariTool- · Feb 17, 2017

Try the new Milwaukee Redstick Level. I ordered one just for misc use. Nicely machined base. Good for general and somewhat precise work. Different sizes are available.

DavidScott · Feb 17, 2017

I got my Starrett 199 on Ebay as well. Less than half the price and the level and box were both pristine. If you can use it you can calibrate it, if it needs it.

ewlsey · Feb 17, 2017

I have two Polish made Vis or Viz levels. They used to be sold through Enco. I bought them with the intention to buy a better one later. It's been 5ish years, I don't see the need.

dsergison · Feb 17, 2017

MSC Industrial Supply Co.. I like these. Very nice for reasonable $

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Danny VanVoorn · Feb 17, 2017

I have a Starrett 199 and had a precision level bought from a pawn shop that was made in Poland. I sold the one that was made in Poland but to tell the truth I think it worked as good as the Starrett and new was about half the price. The vial is the precision part and in reality if all you want to do is check box ways for level a mediocre level with a good flat base and a precision vial installed and set properly would work. The pricier ones have insulating hand grabs, maybe a ground parabolic grooves for checking shafts or some other feature such as a magnetic base and so forth that I will probably never need.
Dan

Vancbiker · Feb 17, 2017

RedneckPhysics said:
......Or perhaps a French import?: 8 Inch Long, .5 Graduation Sensitivity 2352763 - MSC

I have one one of these. Been using it for over 20 years now. Nice tool!

vonleyser · Feb 18, 2017

Might look into something like this.

I have a set I might part with.I'll post a picture of mine later today.

DMF_TomB · Feb 18, 2017

actually a boss water level i have used before, i bolted on 1/2" by 6" by 6" aluminum to bottoms. when building a masonry wall laying concrete block it works good to get corners level to 1/16". the aluminum blocks were so the graduated cylinders would sit by them selves and not blow over or hose easily pull over
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http://user.icx.net/~leveltech/oldindex.html
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level developments
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Inclinometer, Spirit Level Vials manufacturer | Level Developments
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thinkerf is saw mill alignment tools. many are specialized for large machine alignment
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http://www.thinkerf.com/index.htm

Tannewitz · Feb 19, 2017

Vonleyser.

I have interest in your set. Please send me details.

John. tannewitz at yahoo dot com

vonleyser · Feb 19, 2017

Tannewitz said:
Vonleyser.

I have interest in your set. Please send me details.

John. tannewitz at yahoo dot com

Couldn't send to your email.
Your mail box here at PM is full.

What details would you like to know.

I would be open to offers around $750.00

I believe similar new ones are in the range of a few thousand dollars.
I have requested a current price for one with accessories.

Link takes you to some information about these, details.

http://www.wylerag.com/fileadmin/pdf/flyer/schlauchwasserwaage.pdf

D.D.Machine · Feb 20, 2017

My good level walked out of my shop ( x worker ) and I needed one fast so I ordered a china $80 off ebay thinking it would be junk ,, I was wrong its flat and works vary nice ... its the .0002 per line and 12". even the wood box was not the normal cheap china junk ,,

DMF_TomB · Feb 20, 2017

been my experience the Chinese .0002/10" levels are cheaper than the .0005/10" or .001/10" levels and .004/10" is very very difficult to find
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yet nothing worse than a level too sensitive and you are always off the scale with bubble all the way to one side
.
the Shiyong Wujin Shouce or Standard Hardware Handbook does not even list .004/10" levels

Vancbiker · Feb 20, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.....yet nothing worse than a level too sensitive and you are always off the scale with bubble all the way to one side
.

In leveling machine tools I've never seen this be a problem. It still tells you where to raise or lower the machine.

For rough setting big machines before anchor holes are grouted, I just use a good Stanley carpenters level. Then after the anchors are grouted, break out a pair of .0002/10" levels and get to work.

DMF_TomB · Feb 20, 2017

Vancbiker said:
In leveling machine tools I've never seen this be a problem. It still tells you where to raise or lower the machine.

For rough setting big machines before anchor holes are grouted, I just use a good Stanley carpenters level. Then after the anchors are grouted, break out a pair of .0002/10" levels and get to work.

.
.
the .004" per 10" level is used to calculate shims needed to level. it saves time as you might need a .001 to .100 in shims. many machines are not on screw jacks
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carpenter level is not a calibrated vial. it does not tell you might need .045" in shims
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biggest difference in Starrett 97 and 98 levels is 97 level the vial lines are not calibrated or ground. first line might be .005 per foot 2nd line .013 per foot so 2 lines .018 per foot. 97 level we used to sell only thing good for is dig a hole in the dirt and bury the garbage. cost for 98 level is like $10 more well worth it
....one of the reason people still buy the Starrett 98 level is it is good for calculating shims needed

Garwood · Feb 20, 2017

I have leveled a lot of machines with a $100 used Starrett 199.

Pretty easy to use a precision level to rough level. You just pick up one side and look at the gap on that end.

Precision Levels for small VMC Alignment- Which to buy?

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