Proto Trak

ridehd · Mar 19, 2015

Hello, I am looking at some used Prototrak machines at auction. I will not be doing production just making some fixtures for our printing equipment. I am trying to find out what generations of their controls are still current and what the generations are in a chronological order.

Thanks,
Tom

DMF_TomB · Mar 19, 2015

prototrak

ridehd said:
Hello, I am looking at some used Prototrak machines at auction. I will not be doing production just making some fixtures for our printing equipment. I am trying to find out what generations of their controls are still current and what the generations are in a chronological order.

Thanks,
Tom

.
check out their web site
Southwestern Industries, Inc.
.
in general a newer model will have a usb port and a older model will have a floppy disc drive or nothing but plugs for serial port connection to a computer or a tape drive which i have not seen for 2 decades
.
i have used a prototrak plus that will not even draw a picture of the tool path as the display is just one line of text / numbers. the newer models have glass scales or better for digital readout and not the older trav a dial encoders (basically a steel wheel in contact with machine side and prone to jamming if chip scraper and foam seal not replaced often)
.
i used for many years making parts for printing press equipment.

Scottl · Mar 19, 2015

I suggest nothing older than an MX2. Even that is a pretty old machine but condition of the mill also means a lot.

DMF_TomB · Mar 19, 2015

i would make sure prototrak operator and programming manual is available. if you do not have it is 100x more difficult to figure out say a error code 23 means. or pressing buttons for longer than 3 seconds does things different than a quick press. make sure you can get the operator manuals

TDegenhart · Mar 19, 2015

Manual are available and free of charge to download from their web site as noted above. They also have an excellent customer service group, 800-367-3165.

Tom

DMF_TomB · Mar 19, 2015

manuals

TDegenhart said:
Manual are available and free of charge to download from their web site as noted above. They also have an excellent customer service group, 800-367-3165.

Tom

.
some but not all the operator and programming manuals are online. the prototrak plus manual is not online as well as other older models. many you are asked to buy a manual or a cd-rom with manual assuming they still have them although sometimes they will email it to you for free if you telephone them.
.
never ever assume you can get a operator manual. anything before 2000 and especially before 1995 is BC or before personal computers.
.
personally the operator and programming manual is the most important thing i look for in buying a machine. easily affects price in my opinion by thousands of dollars. if no manual often many never ever figure out how to operate the control.

Lucky 13 · Mar 19, 2015

I have a a Prototrak Plus equipped Bridgeport 2J and couldn't find a manual online. I called SWI and they emailed me the operating/programming manual and Cad Cam interface manual PDFs without spending a cent.

gundog · Mar 19, 2015

I have a Proto Trak DPM bed mill with the AGE 3 control. It is good for simple stuff but it lacks in many areas and it is not a VMC. The control does does not control the spindle other than turning it off at the end of the program. I love my machine and will keep it even if I upgrade later to a VMC. Just know it has limitations but it is easy to program at the control.

Mike

TRussell · Mar 19, 2015

gundog said:
I have a Proto Trak DPM bed mill with the AGE 3 control. It is good for simple stuff but it lacks in many areas and it is not a VMC. The control does does not control the spindle other than turning it off at the end of the program. I love my machine and will keep it even if I upgrade later to a VMC. Just know it has limitations but it is easy to program at the control.

Mike

I've run Prototrak mills and lathes since 1997.

The company I work for recently bought a Haas VF-2, and the difference is huge. Not even the same class of machine.

I know some people think Haas are shitty, but I'd like to see them try a Prototrak.

I only run the Prototraks when I have to, and it makes me get a stinky face.

Kapster · Mar 20, 2015

We have a 2007 prototrak 1840sx at work and I, uh... Hate it. I begged them to get something different but they didnt. as was mentioned earlier, they are very limited in what you can do.
-You have to hit three buttons for every part run. Start, spindle on forward and go.
-Loses tool offsets when its shut down.
-Only one program in memory, and if you shut it down or power goes out its gone like the tool offsets.
-Cant change spindle direction in program.
-No way to run the air collet closer by mcode to use a bar puller.
-spindle rpm and rapids are slow(i know its not a production machine but ouch)

Its ok for really simple stuff but beyond that its a stretch. We talked about getting a haas turning center soon, but even their toolroom lathe would be a huge jump.

DMF_TomB · Mar 20, 2015

if he is looking at a 2 axis prototrak on a bridgeport then he is probably wants a machine that
.
1) acts as a manual mill with digital readout (important if manual machinist are using it)
2) can do 2 axis cnc that is Z is not powered. so drilling is done by hand or feel
3) rapids are maybe 100 ipm
4) relatively very easy to program. that is often less than 5 minutes to program. some machinist get in the habit of spending a hour to program on a computer. i have often seen it was faster to do conversational programming at the control.
5) not high horsepower, which for somebody learning cnc that is a good thing. kind of hard to crash a prototrak. i never have in over 15 years of use.
.
i have used a prototrak plus, mx2, age2 and all were good to have in a shop with a mix of manual machinist and some who were learning cnc and did not want or have a cad cam program. the ability to easily do conversational programming at the control is important to many. some machinist never ever in 40 years ever needed or had to do anything but conversational programming at the control and got by making parts with out any problems.
.
now if he already has prototraks or is fully comfortable with 3 axis CNC programming and has a cad cam program he knows how to use fast then by all means look at a different type of cnc. cad cam programming is important to know it usually cost a lot of money and can take years to learn to use fast. beginners rarely with simple jobs want to learn a cad cam program that might have a 800 page book on how to use

Kapster · Mar 20, 2015

yea im sure its a good fit for some people. But those are alot of the reasons we got one. We got one so our manual machinists would use it, they dont and never will. The conversational might be easy if you dont know g code, but if you do its incredibly frustrating. The handwheels are a gimick, only good for positioning like a MPG on any other cnc. They wanted it for the conversational programming, all the guys write bobcad programs and dont even use it. they went through alot to get it working right, and threading has never worked when posting gcode.
It is awesome for threading i have to say. One page of info to fill in, touchoff the tool and go. Its a handy lathe to have around, i just wish it wasnt our only cnc lathe.
Unless someone is really against learning gcode, the haas toolroom lathe is much more capable. Just depends what you need.

DMF_TomB · Mar 20, 2015

prototrak

Kapster said:
yea im sure its a good fit for some people. But those are alot of the reasons we got one. We got one so our manual machinists would use it, they dont and never will. The conversational might be easy if you dont know g code, but if you do its incredibly frustrating. The handwheels are a gimick, only good for positioning like a MPG on any other cnc. They wanted it for the conversational programming, all the guys write bobcad programs and dont even use it. they went through alot to get it working right, and threading has never worked when posting gcode.
It is awesome for threading i have to say. One page of info to fill in, touchoff the tool and go. Its a handy lathe to have around, i just wish it wasnt our only cnc lathe.
Unless someone is really against learning gcode, the haas toolroom lathe is much more capable. Just depends what you need.

.
yes there are some manual machinist that have no interest in learning even a basic cnc like a prototrak. same as there are machinist that have no interest in learning a cad cam program or learning gcode which by the way the Prototrak does use Fanuc 6 and also SWI gcode but you do not see it at the control but can easily read the file on a computer. some manual machinist cannot even use a computer so expecting them to use a cad cam program is a bit too much
...... the prototrak manual is about 100 pages and the programming and using cnc part is about 50 pages. if a machinist cannot or does not want to study 50 pages and do the tutorials they would have less of a chance to do more say read a 500 page or more manual on a cad cam program and using gcode. more than once i have seen manual machinist just roll their eyes and totally give up looking at even a few lines of gcode
.
the saying is you have to walk before you can run. a prototrak is a excellent machine to start learning basic cnc. once you have mastered using a basic 2 axis cnc then i would say sure try to learn how to use a 3 axis cnc which has 10x the potential to crash the machine.
.
i have also worked with many experts at conversational programming. i can easily say working a week training with somebody that is a expert at conversational programming and you can learn more in a week than many months trying to learn on your own. but if you had to learn on your own you have a better chance learning a basic 2 axis cnc like a prototrak than something 10x more complicated

ridehd · Mar 20, 2015

Thanks for all the help.
I will be making 1 or 2 piece fixtures for print samples. I have my eye on a couple different vintages and machines at a local auction.
RAMI knee mill with A.G.E 2
TRAK DPM Bed mill with A.G.E 3
Chevalier knee with Proto Trak M2
Bridgeport Knee with Trak CNC 2 This looks ancient!
17x45 Trak lathe with proto Tak LX2 control

Any opinions would be great!
Thanks, Tom

DMF_TomB · Mar 20, 2015

ridehd said:
Thanks for all the help.
I will be making 1 or 2 piece fixtures for print samples. I have my eye on a couple different vintages and machines at a local auction.
RAMI knee mill with A.G.E 2
TRAK DPM Bed mill with A.G.E 3
Chevalier knee with Proto Trak M2
Bridgeport Knee with Trak CNC 2 This looks ancient!
17x45 Trak lathe with proto Tak LX2 control

Any opinions would be great!
Thanks, Tom

.
age2 and age3 is newer than M2.
.
usually there are name plates somewhere on machine that might have a date of manufacture. if possible i would ask if they are in working condition. SWI has people available for repairs but usually it is better to buy machines that are working rather than a fixer upper

Kapster · Mar 20, 2015

DMF_TomB said:
.
yes there are some manual machinist that have no interest in learning even a basic cnc like a prototrak. same as there are machinist that have no interest in learning a cad cam program or learning gcode which by the way the Prototrak does use Fanuc 6 and also SWI gcode but you do not see it at the control but can easily read the file on a computer. some manual machinist cannot even use a computer so expecting them to use a cad cam program is a bit too much
...... the prototrak manual is about 100 pages and the programming and using cnc part is about 50 pages. if a machinist cannot or does not want to study 50 pages and do the tutorials they would have less of a chance to do more say read a 500 page or more manual on a cad cam program and using gcode. more than once i have seen manual machinist just roll their eyes and totally give up looking at even a few lines of gcode
.
the saying is you have to walk before you can run. a prototrak is a excellent machine to start learning basic cnc. once you have mastered using a basic 2 axis cnc then i would say sure try to learn how to use a 3 axis cnc which has 10x the potential to crash the machine.
.
i have also worked with many experts at conversational programming. i can easily say working a week training with somebody that is a expert at conversational programming and you can learn more in a week than many months trying to learn on your own. but if you had to learn on your own you have a better chance learning a basic 2 axis cnc like a prototrak than something 10x more complicated

All good points dmf. I guess i would say my problem is I was already doing g code 3 axis VMC's/ cad cam programming. They get this lathe to try to get more people interested and its very frustrating how basic it is, when i know a simple g code program would do everything. Some of the control doesnt even make sense, like in one part of it, the page forward is to the left of the page back button. Why wouldnt you put the page forward in the direction you want to go? You have to sit there and think about which button to push. Stuff like that just drives me nuts.

Duh I kept saying get a haas toolroom lathe, he was asking about a mill. But their toolroom mill would be the same deal.
Try it out before you buy it, if its for you then you'll know.

DMF_TomB · Mar 21, 2015

Kapster said:
All good points dmf. I guess i would say my problem is I was already doing g code 3 axis VMC's/ cad cam programming. They get this lathe to try to get more people interested and its very frustrating how basic it is, when i know a simple g code program would do everything. Some of the control doesnt even make sense, like in one part of it, the page forward is to the left of the page back button. Why wouldnt you put the page forward in the direction you want to go? You have to sit there and think about which button to push. Stuff like that just drives me nuts.

Duh I kept saying get a haas toolroom lathe, he was asking about a mill. But their toolroom mill would be the same deal.
Try it out before you buy it, if its for you then you'll know.

.
the prototrak lx2 does take Fanuc 6 gcode as i have used it on one. any cnc machine takes getting used to control and what buttons to push. after some time machinist push buttons so fast they do not even think about it any more.
........ the prototrak lathe with trak feature where when you crank the knob follows tool path only as long as you turn knob is useful. i know many absolutely like to use this feature instead of fully automatic as they can vary feed to break long stringy chips. not everybody has thousands of dollars in tooling with chip breakers. some actually use hand sharpened tooling which when turning plain 1018 steel or 6061 aluminum can make very long stringy chips wrapping around the part
.......... i know many good machinist that never ever use expensive or even cheap cad cam programs. they prefer a more simpler cnc machine with conversational programming and after you get used to cnc control it is easy to use

BR3 · Mar 21, 2015

Look around for a Milltronics. You won't be disappointed.

tdeutmeyer · Mar 23, 2015

Of the machines you have listed on your Watch list, I would go with the DPM MX3. It is an excellent fixture building mill.
Reasons: It is a bed mill and is more rigid than a knee mill
Even if you don't want 3d, The 3d is worth it just to be able to move the z axis with a push of a jog button. (rather than manual crank)
Super easy to program. I have had machinists with zero cnc experience programming and cutting in a few hrs.
Pay attention to the voltage and type of tool holder. You may want to match your other machines. Nmtb30 taper is what we use. More
solid than an R8 IMO. A power drawbar pays for itself very quickly with the amount of time saved in changing tools.
I have 3 DPMs, 1 sm, 1smx, and now the LPM machining center. I have been running these machines since '98 with very little issues. I personally use a '98 DPM daily while the LPM is running.
The newer controls are a little more user friendly when it comes to saving programs allowing you to use #'s and char. The DPM's you save with an all # program so you may have to keep a book to remember what program number does what. The new controls allow you to bring a DXF print in and you can program by just clicking holes or geometry. Nice if you don't have a CAM system.

e-fishin-c · Mar 23, 2015

Hey Ridehd, Southwestern is having an openhouse in Shrewsbury, MA on Wednesday and Thursday.....Might be worth your while to see what is avail and give you some ideas

I'm heading down there Wed to check out new machines as I am in the market to get out of handcranking mills

Proto Trak

Plastic

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Cast Iron

Similar threads