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Reccomend a Small Gang Tool Turning Center

TSewell

Plastic
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Location
Beaverton, OR
I work at a company that makes small plastic parts. Parts are very abrasive plastic, lathe turned with PCD tooling. Part envelope is .500" Long x .500" diameter, and is currently held in a 5c collet. Operation is facing front and rear of part (held on arbor) and turning OD. Tolerances are in some cases +-.0001 on width. Parts are run dry, with no coolant (medical). Production quantities are in the 30K plus/year range. I have several Omniturns that we have been running these operations on for some years, and they generally hold tolerance fairly well, but the control is, well, less than awesome. I would really like a small gang tool lathe with a Fanuc control. I have looked at:

Cubic - nice machine but the control location is not my favorite
Cyclematic (Hardinge CHNC clone with Fanuc Oi control, seems nice, although concerned about Turcite/Box way versus linear slides)
Amada/Wasino (G05 model, looks like a good fit, waiting to hear back from salesman)

Budget is around 100k, hence no mention of Miyano, etc.

Am I missing any good options here? Any recent experience with any of these machines?

Thanks!
 
Prodigy gt 27 rebuilt $36,950



on the prodigy
6000 rpm spindle
collet closer
1/4 hp coolant pump
bar feed io interface
spindle lock


This was the first machine that jumped to my mind, too. We have a couple of them we use for simple ops, and they're great little machines for what they are. They're cheap, reliable, run Fanuc, and will hold tenths if you pay attention...
 
Hass office lathe, the things pretty good IMHO and meats the your requirements pretty darn well :-) Its no hogging tool, but i think it would do your precision with out difficulty in a low hp - low stress cut.
 
Hass office lathe, the things pretty good IMHO and meats the your requirements pretty darn well :-) Its no hogging tool, but i think it would do your precision with out difficulty in a low hp - low stress cut.

Is that what you went for in the end?
 
THE gang tool lathe is a Hardinge GT. On the part you describe it would rock. Layout your tooling so the spindle never switches direction and you could drop parts off every 10 seconds. The Hardinge GT's are rock solid, like the 350 small block of the lathe world. I have one that is 20 years old with over 3 million parts on the clock. I think we have replaced a Z axis screw once, and I just did x axis support bearings. That's it for serious issues..in 20 years and it runs everyday.

The Gt's will legitimately hold a tenth or two all day. There is a company local to me that specializes in automation for the GT and could plunk a load/unload fanuc robot on the deck, viola! how many parts do you want?

I would even recommend finding a used one, they are great machines.
 
Is that what you went for in the end?

No im still rolling my own option. It was a bit small for what i ideally wanted. As the customer kinda brought up anouther product line - idea and to do it i need to be able to profile 8" dimiter rolls upto about 8" long and have some kinda tail-stock option, even if cruder than f**k. IE me lathes gotta be able to clear 4" swing over the saddle and the hass seamed marginal for that. Also cost wise it was more than i felt it was worth to me, pay backs too far off on my turned work for it. The protrack is still a interesting option, but speed wise i fear its going to kill me, also the local place that had one did not speak highly and was changing out yet another servo when i talked to them about it. Also I want to save the money to go towards a real mill. The lathe is by far the simpler problem for me to resolve for what i need it to do. Also the whole premises thing has been held up and thats a key part to really opening the options i have machinery wise right now.

I swear my whole buisness futures plans are becoming like a jigsaw puzzle, i have a real good feel for the pieces i need, i have plans to fund those pieces, but i need the space. Seams like once i can get a few more bits of the puzzle lined up things should really be able to come together. The space i have lined up is worth holding off for though, the price is right and the land lord and me go back all but 4 days of my working life, so its some one i can trust too which is going to be good.

As to the lathe, i have no qualms about rolling my own to meet my simple needs. My pipe benders earnt me a a fortune in the time i have had it. If the lathe can then open up a similar segment of the market for the turned bits i should then be able to make a jump on the mill side of things which should then fund a better lathe that’s got some serious live tool capabilities is my kinda distant ish hopes.
 
I don't understand the problem with the Omniturns, I would rather program simple parts on an Omniturn control than a Fansuc control 15 days out of the week. Simple, easy to use, .00005 offset capacity why not?
 
Control on the Omniturn is not awesome!?! It is easy and will do most stuff. You could probably buy 4 new ones or 5 retrofits with your budget. With bar feeds 5 machines running would make a lot of money.
We have a Hardinge GT with the awesome Fanuc 18T control, we use it for jobs that are too fussy on tolerances for the Omniturns and jobs where we need live tooling. There are several other things the Hardinge does better also but I have never had to put something on the GT because the controls on the Omniturns were limited.
If you want a real opinion on Fanuc controls ask John Weldon.
Can not comment on the other machines.
 
Funuc has made generation on generation of poor controls that are inconsistent, unreliable and manipulative sorry but John's opinion is much lighter than mine. I am not saying Omniturn is ideal and the retros don't even offer live tool options, but for simple parts shit yeah. And guess what the manuals are in English, which is my first language.
 
Cincom is the way to go. Contract the part out, getting a couple quotes can't hurt.

Not really following this post. He won't benefit much from a Swiss machine as the part is relatively short and all one sided. It may help him with the tight tolerance a little. I don't see how contracting the work out would benefit either as then someone else can make money off of his part, and it sounds like he has an existing, very capable machine shop. Maybe I'm just not understanding something though...
 
Not really following this post. He won't benefit much from a Swiss machine as the part is relatively short and all one sided. It may help him with the tight tolerance a little. I don't see how contracting the work out would benefit either as then someone else can make money off of his part, and it sounds like he has an existing, very capable machine shop. Maybe I'm just not understanding something though...

Op says:
"Operation is facing front and rear of part (held on arbor) and turning OD."

My bad I didn't know the front and rear of the part were the same side.

When it comes to buying a new machine or repackaging a part. Many shops contract out work. We do it with any work we get thats over 1.25".

This part is exactly what swiss machines do. Cincom BL12 can do these parts, I would guess a 6 to 8 second cycle time.
 
Cincom isn't the manufacturer.... It's Citizen... Cincom is just the sticker on the side of the machine. And if they're currently running it as 2 ops, presumably with a stop, unless they're running them 24/7, lights out, it'd take awhile to see the ROI on a Swiss versus a basic gang tooled baby lathe.
 
Also, a bit OT, but Adama has a full inbox:

Adam, I remember seeing your thread about which lathe to get, and I don't remember the specifics of what you need, but your post here about considering prototraks gave me a wild hair... This might be a dumb suggestion, but have you looked at the Haas TL-1? It's not an awesome hogger or anything, but for smaller production work, without super tight tolerances or the need for flood coolant (which ours had, without TOO much of a mess), it could be a decent to great machine. Of course, you might have some requirement I've forgotten which precludes it, just thought I'd throw it out there in case it slipped under your radar.

Cheers!

--Nick
 
Given the quantities of parts the SNK Prodigy GT27 is one of the fastest and sturdiest machines available for that type of work. It spins up and stops the spindle very fast, and is very adaptable for load/unload options, and tool stations. The best feature is that cast polymer concrete base, getting 3000 pounds in about a 3 foot square. You hardly know it's cycling.

http://www.cncnew.com/shop/products/gt-27_prodigy_brochure.pdf
 
I may be wrong but based on the OP's description it seems to me is getting raw parts that are close to size and he is doing the finish machining. I'm thinking injection molded but then can't hold the tolerance thus the finish machining. No bar feeding. Not sure if the OP is already running automation but I'd be spending half the budget on a vib bowl and loading system. Also seeing as it's an abrasive plastic I would want to see tool wear monitoring and spare tools on the gang. Maybe even automated gaging. Get it setup so that it can run semi unattended.

That Amada will likely be in the same price range, or higher, as Miyano. Amada/Wasino seems to have taken their whole lathe offering into the automation segment, they could likely offer a turn key automated machine.
 








 
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