Recommendation for low cost vmc

Yes, I know... ive used the search function

Ive been looking at fadals up here in Canuckistan. Pricing seems either high, or the machines are baffed. Im looking for something like a 4020, and would love a full 4th.
Looking state side is abysmal right now with our dollar sucking it large. Haas machines seem WAY over priced when you get into 97+ vintage (for what they are, really).
There are a few old Mori's, Makino's and the odd Kitamura floating around at a decent price. Even a few Matsuuras. They are late 80's\early 90's vintage machines. Pricing seems reasonable, and a few come with the 4th. Im wondering how these old Jap machines compare to an early 90's fadal. Im not too worried about rapid speeds, but I want something that can contour 3 & 4 axis for decent surface finishes. I THINK parts for the older jap machines will more than likely be MUCH more expensive, or flat out unobtanium. I just kinda gag when I think about spending 25k on an '88 Makino though...
What do you think? I'd like to be able to do some mould work, speed is not critical (obviously), but accuracy, and 3d contouring ability are (within reason, at price point). I'm just kinda sorta starting out, mostly for fun right now.
Something that really chaps my arse... The machine dealers never list pricing, what a PITA. Jeebus. So you email looking for a price, and then you get something silly back, and then over the next month you get slammed with emails for all kinds of 60-70k machines. What a waste of time.
Can anyone offer advise as to what these guys generally mark up? How to bargain with them? (especially when the machine is NOT as MINT as they say).
Thank for the input guys.
Cheers!

I work for a used equipment company based out of Chicago (actually the burbs) and if you would like to email me [email protected] I would be more than happy to send you a complete list of machines we have in stock. Pricing for all machines is included! I look forward to hearing from you and hope we can help you out.

Wow,
Three or four years ago there were a bunch of mazak's on the market in Canada, I wonder what happened?

Fadals I love, I've had a few, I think the same (almost) about Mazak's. The difference to me is the ease of repair between the two. Fadal's, with resources here and everywhere else I can repair them with most any problem. Stick with 95,or newer with CNC88HS controls. Mazak's, I have not had enough experience to say the same, but I do know the parts are generally more expensive as they are with any Japanese machine however,they have a reputation for robustness. I would try to look at 1995 machines or newer there also (for sure if you go older in age, M2 or higher control. BTW - M2 controls started in "89" as I recall).

So, my suggestion is to look not only at the condition of the machine but the ability to service and repair it in your location.

When buying a used machine, I expect to have to make some repairs, I generally assume 15% to 20% of what I pay for the machine I'll spend the first year getting it up and going plus repairs . After that things seem to settle in.

Sorry, I wish I could give you more but that is all I got.

I have a service guy that specializes in Fadal. He is always on the look out for good used machines. If you PM me I will give you his phone number. Steve

scadvice said:

Wow,
Three or four years ago there were a bunch of mazak's on the market in Canada, I wonder what happened?

Click to expand...

I figure the dollar. 3 or 4 years ago the dollar was strong against the greenback, and a lot of shops took advantage of it. Last few months the used market has kinda dried up from what ive seen, and prices seem to have gone up in relation to the US market. The use car market sucks here right now too. You can get a killing on a used vehicle, as Yankee dealers are realizing a 25% difference in the dollar helps pad their pockets.
If anyone is looking for used gear right now, look north. But wait until I buy my machine...please!