cyberx86
Plastic
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2017
- Location
- Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I am a teacher, and one of the lead mentors of a competitive high school robotics team, based in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. We are looking to acquire a small, reliable CNC mill, primarily for use with aluminum, for under C$20k all in.
Robot
We participate in the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC), and build 120lb robots. These are approximately 2ft by 3ft, and move at 10-20ft/s. They are built from scratch in about 6 weeks, with separate refinements made for about 6 additional weeks.
Team
Our team consists of 20-30 male and female students, grades 9 to 12. The majority of these do not have previous experience with machines, but have gained experience with hand tools, as well as machines such as drill presses and bandsaws through out program. We have around 10 mentors, with various experiences – many in the science/engineering fields, but some who are millwrights or have backgrounds in manufacturing technology. While our team has a solid background in CAD, 3D printers, a little CAM/CNC, and manual mills, there is no specific experience in CNC Mills. Our students and mentors are usually quick to pick up new techniques, and are eager to learn. We would like something that is not overly complex to setup or maintain. We are happy to learn about feeds and speeds, and perform maintenance such as lubricating easily accessible components. We would like to avoid machines requiring custom G-code or complex programming in order be functional.
Facility
We build out of an old elementary school. The advantage to this is that we are able to share resources with other local teams (there are 4 or 5 other teams that regularly build out of our facility, and another dozen that visit throughout the season). It does, however, mean that we are limited to the power and space requirements of the building. On the electricity side, we can do single phase 110V or 220V, to a maximum of 35A. We cannot do 400+V setups, and we anticipate difficulty doing a 3-phase setup (but may explore it further if there is a compelling reason). Our facility has single doors leading from the outside to our shop. As such, the machine must fit through a standard 34” wide by 78” tall door. We may be able to expand the door to 58" wide by 83" tall. We are fine with some disassembly of the machine, if required.
Use case
We anticipate using the mill primarily for milling 6061 aluminum (>95% of the time), with the occasional milling of plastic (nylon, Delrin/acetal, HDPE, Lexan/polycarbonate) and steel. We spend about 500 hours a year in our shop. We expect that the mill would see light duty use, under 200 hours/year. We typically use rectangular aluminum tubes (2”x1”, 0.100” thick) and see value in being able to leverage a mill’s accuracy for positioning bearing holes. This would require an X-travel of approximately 30”. We would also like to be able to mill gearbox plates, likely of dimensions less than 8” square. Other milling would usually be fairly small components (less than 5” square). All our milling would fall into the one-off category. We would not be doing production runs. There may be a few rare cases where we make 3-4 of the same item.
Budget
We received some funding for advanced manufacturing to support our programming. A part of this was used to purchase a CNC router, and another part must be spent on a CNC mill. Our budget for the mill is C$20k (~US$15.5k), including shipping, tax, and installation. We have already increased this from C$15k as we were unable to find anything that met out needs at the previous price point, and are unable to raise it further.
Software/Technical Stack
In house, we use Solidworks for our 3D modelling, and expect to be using Fusion 360 for CAM (although we may consider HSMworks). Our existing and new machinery will be connected via Ethernet. We would like a mill to use the same setup – preferably Ethernet, but at least USB. We would rather avoid parallel/serial ports.
Safety
We require an eStop (and if the controller doesn’t provide it, a magnetic starter) as well as guarding (which may be satisfied with an enclosure). Ideally, the machine should not operate with the enclosure open.
Mills Considered
We have explored the possibility of used machines, however, many of the ones we have come across are fairly old (15+ years) and may have control systems that are not compatible with our setups. Many are vertical machining centres – which have many exciting features, but also many ways to break. Additionally, these VMCs tend to have much higher power requirements or would not fit into our facility. Lastly, we simply do not have the expertise to verify the functionality of a used machine.
Summary:
Looking for a CNC Mill, for aluminum, that can fit through a 34” door, has an x-travel of 30”, an enclosure, and costs under C$20k. Any advice on what to consider, look for, or avoid would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Chris
Robot
We participate in the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC), and build 120lb robots. These are approximately 2ft by 3ft, and move at 10-20ft/s. They are built from scratch in about 6 weeks, with separate refinements made for about 6 additional weeks.
Team
Our team consists of 20-30 male and female students, grades 9 to 12. The majority of these do not have previous experience with machines, but have gained experience with hand tools, as well as machines such as drill presses and bandsaws through out program. We have around 10 mentors, with various experiences – many in the science/engineering fields, but some who are millwrights or have backgrounds in manufacturing technology. While our team has a solid background in CAD, 3D printers, a little CAM/CNC, and manual mills, there is no specific experience in CNC Mills. Our students and mentors are usually quick to pick up new techniques, and are eager to learn. We would like something that is not overly complex to setup or maintain. We are happy to learn about feeds and speeds, and perform maintenance such as lubricating easily accessible components. We would like to avoid machines requiring custom G-code or complex programming in order be functional.
Facility
We build out of an old elementary school. The advantage to this is that we are able to share resources with other local teams (there are 4 or 5 other teams that regularly build out of our facility, and another dozen that visit throughout the season). It does, however, mean that we are limited to the power and space requirements of the building. On the electricity side, we can do single phase 110V or 220V, to a maximum of 35A. We cannot do 400+V setups, and we anticipate difficulty doing a 3-phase setup (but may explore it further if there is a compelling reason). Our facility has single doors leading from the outside to our shop. As such, the machine must fit through a standard 34” wide by 78” tall door. We may be able to expand the door to 58" wide by 83" tall. We are fine with some disassembly of the machine, if required.
Use case
We anticipate using the mill primarily for milling 6061 aluminum (>95% of the time), with the occasional milling of plastic (nylon, Delrin/acetal, HDPE, Lexan/polycarbonate) and steel. We spend about 500 hours a year in our shop. We expect that the mill would see light duty use, under 200 hours/year. We typically use rectangular aluminum tubes (2”x1”, 0.100” thick) and see value in being able to leverage a mill’s accuracy for positioning bearing holes. This would require an X-travel of approximately 30”. We would also like to be able to mill gearbox plates, likely of dimensions less than 8” square. Other milling would usually be fairly small components (less than 5” square). All our milling would fall into the one-off category. We would not be doing production runs. There may be a few rare cases where we make 3-4 of the same item.
Budget
We received some funding for advanced manufacturing to support our programming. A part of this was used to purchase a CNC router, and another part must be spent on a CNC mill. Our budget for the mill is C$20k (~US$15.5k), including shipping, tax, and installation. We have already increased this from C$15k as we were unable to find anything that met out needs at the previous price point, and are unable to raise it further.
Software/Technical Stack
In house, we use Solidworks for our 3D modelling, and expect to be using Fusion 360 for CAM (although we may consider HSMworks). Our existing and new machinery will be connected via Ethernet. We would like a mill to use the same setup – preferably Ethernet, but at least USB. We would rather avoid parallel/serial ports.
Safety
We require an eStop (and if the controller doesn’t provide it, a magnetic starter) as well as guarding (which may be satisfied with an enclosure). Ideally, the machine should not operate with the enclosure open.
Mills Considered
- CNC Masters Supra – good price and specs, has a large x-travel, lacks an enclosure, poor reviews
- Haas MiniMill-EDU – price is above budget, limited x-travel, well reviewed
- Tormach PCNC 770/1100 – price above budget (haven’t found an educational discount), limited x-travel
- Haas TM-1 – price considerably above budget (haven’t found an educational discount), may not fit through door
We have explored the possibility of used machines, however, many of the ones we have come across are fairly old (15+ years) and may have control systems that are not compatible with our setups. Many are vertical machining centres – which have many exciting features, but also many ways to break. Additionally, these VMCs tend to have much higher power requirements or would not fit into our facility. Lastly, we simply do not have the expertise to verify the functionality of a used machine.
Summary:
Looking for a CNC Mill, for aluminum, that can fit through a 34” door, has an x-travel of 30”, an enclosure, and costs under C$20k. Any advice on what to consider, look for, or avoid would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Chris
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