Roughing and finishing aluminum tool set up strategy

countryboy1966 · Aug 25, 2017

I run parts had have high % material removal: lots of roughing minimal finishing. 6061-t6 al

I am going to set up with a separate roughing and finishing tool similar to the approach used on steel so I can control finishing dimensions longer.

Is this approach typical on aluminum as well? Checking to see so I don't buy all the extra tooling just for it not to work for an unforeseen issue.

Thanks!

DMF_TomB · Aug 25, 2017

countryboy1966 said:
I run parts had have high % material removal: lots of roughing minimal finishing. 6061-t6 al

I am going to set up with a separate roughing and finishing tool similar to the approach used on steel so I can control finishing dimensions longer.

Is this approach typical on aluminum as well? Checking to see so I don't buy all the extra tooling just for it not to work for an unforeseen issue.

Thanks!

standard to use separate rougher and finisher. cutting edge on roughers and finishers are usually different. finisher giving better finish but not able to take heavy roughing.
.
many roughers are serrated like a roughing edge mill to create smaller chips less wrapping around a cutter. obviously they leave a rougher surface cause of this

triumph406 · Aug 25, 2017

countryboy1966 said:
I run parts had have high % material removal: lots of roughing minimal finishing. 6061-t6 al

I am going to set up with a separate roughing and finishing tool similar to the approach used on steel so I can control finishing dimensions longer.

Is this approach typical on aluminum as well? Checking to see so I don't buy all the extra tooling just for it not to work for an unforeseen issue.

Thanks!

In 6061 depending on what I'm making I will usually rough and finish with the same tool. I get 100's of hours out of a YG carbide endmill before I change. Changes are generally because I ran into a clamp/vise/something etc that damages the tool. For the parts I make a 1/2" YG endmill gets used a lot.

For large plates and pockets I'll use a high feed mill then finish the corners with an endmill with/without corner radius.

DMF_TomB · Aug 25, 2017

some mills like crest cut can do roughing and finishing. point is a rougher thats slightly dull can still make a lot of chips but the finish might rough cause it is slightly dull.
.
by using a sharp finisher you get the best finish allowing using the rougher to the max

countryboy1966 · Aug 25, 2017

Thanks for the feedback! These concepts should be the same on both milling and turning correct? Id like to hear feedback in both cases.

DMF_TomB · Aug 25, 2017

countryboy1966 said:
Thanks for the feedback! These concepts should be the same on both milling and turning correct? Id like to hear feedback in both cases.

turning you want cutters that dont make long chips wrapping around the part. usually edge is optimized for small short chips and not for best finish.
.
a insert that gives best finish might make long stringy chips if used for roughing

Winterfalke · Aug 25, 2017

I rarely get a part where the workholding is not the limiting factor in my roughing process plan. I prefer to rough with a 3/4" or bigger insert tool (with through spindle coolant) because I can push it so much faster when circumstances allow. If there is room, I'll go in and carve out areas with the 2" shell mill, hit it with your biggest tools first. You can get crazy aggressive on aluminum as long as you can keep the chips clear and the tool from gumming up, and the part from pulling out. There is no reason to limit yourself to using a finish tool to do your roughing work. Get in there and hog out that material as fast as your machine can push it.

eaglemike · Aug 25, 2017

I like to use roughers. A .5 3fl can run 175 IPM or more, up to 1.25" DOC, 30% step over, 10K rpm, 30 taper. Some use up to 50%, and faster feeds, but I'm chicken. Running HSM like this, the ripple flute roughers break the chips up nicely.

Mtndew · Aug 25, 2017

It all depends on what you're doing, really.
99% of the time I use the same tool for roughing and finishing in 6061, and we run a lot of it.

DMF_TomB · Aug 25, 2017

eaglemike said:
I like to use roughers. A .5 3fl can run 175 IPM or more, up to 1.25" DOC, 30% step over, 10K rpm, 30 taper. Some use up to 50%, and faster feeds, but I'm chicken. Running HSM like this, the ripple flute roughers break the chips up nicely.

.
you just said it 1.25 DOC that a fairly small limit. if you need 12" DOC you aint going to use a 0.5 dia end mill

countryboy1966 · Aug 25, 2017

I ordered the tooling. It's less than $250 and I'll consume them long term even if this strategy does not work.

Part is ran in lathe. Thin wall sections. Very light chucking pressure required.

The parts need to be held within +/-.001 in a couple areas and finish under 50 micro all over.

I think having rougher/ finisher would be the way to go so my final finish lasts longer with quicker tooling changes

eaglemike · Aug 25, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.
you just said it 1.25 DOC that a fairly small limit. if you need 12" DOC you aint going to use a 0.5 dia end mill

Tom, Well DUH!
How many times does people here run 12" DOC. My goodness! I offer some info and you HAVE to be a pain, again.

OP, even in the lathe I run rougher & finisher, for the same reason many above have noted. Breaking chips is the priority.

Mtndew · Aug 25, 2017

eaglemike said:
Tom, Well DUH!
How many times does people here run 12" DOC. My goodness! I offer some info and you HAVE to be a pain, again.

OP, even in the lathe I run rougher & finisher, for the same reason many above have noted. Breaking chips is the priority.

Be nice, if he doesn't brag at least 3 times a day about running big parts, or how he uses Excel his manhood goes soft.

DavidScott · Aug 25, 2017

In a mill it depends on the parts and how well you can hold onto them. I do a lot of roughing with corn cob mills even in 6061 because my limiting factor is holding onto them. I can pull the parts long before I reach the tool or machines limits. Corn cob mills allow a much higher chipload and do so with much less cutting forces, both side and vertical. MA Ford recomends a .01"-.045" chipload for their corn cob roughers and I can attest that they are not optimistic.

litlerob1 · Aug 25, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.
you just said it 1.25 DOC that a fairly small limit. if you need 12" DOC you aint going to use a 0.5 dia end mill

Please explain this Tom. I'm just not sure what you mean. How many Tons is that? which column in your spread sheet do you calculate...something?

DavidScott said:
In a mill it depends on the parts and how well you can hold onto them. I do a lot of roughing with corn cob mills even in 6061 because my limiting factor is holding onto them. I can pull the parts long before I reach the tool or machines limits. Corn cob mills allow a much higher chipload and do so with much less cutting forces, both side and vertical. MA Ford recomends a .01"-.045" chipload for their corn cob roughers and I can attest that they are not optimistic.

But it's not in a Mill.

I hear "corn cob roughers" as a tool sometimes, and the image that comes to mind is Bell Bottoms, Sideburns and KC and the Sunshine band. Followed directly by the hair on my arms standing up and the sudden urge to run away.

Are we talking about the same thing for roughing Aluminum? Is this what were talking about?

Winterfalke · Aug 25, 2017

litlerob1 said:
Please explain this Tom. I'm just not sure what you mean. How many Tons is that? which column in your spread sheet do you calculate...something?

But it's not in a Mill.

I hear "corn cob roughers" as a tool sometimes, and the image that comes to mind is Bell Bottoms, Sideburns and KC and the Sunshine band. Followed directly by the hair on my arms standing up and the sudden urge to run away.

Are we talking about the same thing for roughing Aluminum? Is this what were talking about?

Yes, that is what is normally what we refer to as a "corn cob" style rougher, although at least one company makes an all-purpose mill in that configuration that does an all right job. On a lathe, your chip control pretty much comes down to your DOC and surface speed, and your chip beaker. Some tool holders may allow you to add an extra chip breaker on top of the insert or tool to get a tighter curl to break the chip better.

litlerob1 · Aug 25, 2017

Winterfalke said:
Yes, that is what is normally what we refer to as a "corn cob" style rougher, although at least one company makes an all-purpose mill in that configuration that does an all right job.

Nothing personal, use what works. For myself I never use those, IMO they are junk especially for Aluminum. If you want to use HSS try one of these and have your mind blown. Product style is mini cut, I think. (No affiliation)

To the OP, if you already tooled up cool. Personally I don't ever use a rougher and finisher on a lathe, cutting Aluminum, just one tool is fine with me. But you'll have some tools left over. Sometimes I like using an Alu. specific insert for 304 and 316 SS for finishing and lightish roughing.

R

SeaMoss · Aug 25, 2017

litlerob1 said:
Personally I don't ever use a rougher and finisher on a lathe, just one tool is fine with me.

I do on steel but according to op's description, can't hold the part tight, may as well just go with finishers. If all you can do is take light cuts, there's no point in using inserts meant for heavy cuts.

litlerob1 · Aug 26, 2017

Edited my post, I meant to add when Turning Alum. But I agree with the statement about taking heavy cuts, you need to be able to hold onto the part for sure.

But as an aside; I don't usually use a Rougher when turning anything normal. I only have 12 stations if I'm careful, sometimes only 6 or 8. But I don't set up for Green Horns, sink or swim around here. And we have 4 really solid kids here, that swam. But 1000 pcs. is a huge order for us. 1-10 is normal, sooo rougher/finisher is pretty unnecessary.

R

machtool · Aug 26, 2017

DMF_TomB said:
.
you just said it 1.25 DOC that a fairly small limit. if you need 12" DOC you aint going to use a 0.5 dia end mill

Is there no limit to your ramblings? Case you raised is 24 x D. is he milling or gundrilling?

This thread wont be complete until you show us a 1/2" end mill, A FOOT Long, embedded through a control screen.

Roughing and finishing aluminum tool set up strategy

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Banned

Diamond

Diamond

Similar threads