Kaiser aluminum sucks part 2

IAMATT · Apr 8, 2010

Yet another bad run of bars from Kaiser aluminum. Same story grains are so displaced that their are concentrated pockets of silicon eating our HSS and our custom carbide cutters alive. It wont take plating or anodizing for sh#t and the end result is very poor. We started buying from Alcoa now but no one stocks Alcoa in our area so we are stuck with truck freight on every single bar of aluminum if we dont order it in batches.

God help you if you order any Kaiser aluminum!!!

Tonytn36 · Apr 8, 2010

One of the big reasons we just buy 2500# T-bars of 99.99% pure Al and do our own alloying..... we know what we are getting.

We tried buying pre-alloyed Al.....The Si rocks in it were eating $120 PCD tools like candy (I'm talking like 3 - 6 an hour x 12 machines)

Sounds like Kaiser has cheaped out on the alcoup.....

Guest · Apr 8, 2010

I haven't had any issues yet, but I am using round up to 5" diameter. Is there something they do different manufacturing the round compared to the flat? Or could it be my supplier is selling old stuff that they made better?

wrustle · Apr 8, 2010

My shop is virtually all aluminum and we have nothing but Kaiser and Sapa sitting in the racks.

Can't think of any problems we've ever had machining it (with the material anyways

) and we use flats, rounds, plates, angles and tubing.

What does your supplier say?

Dave Cross · Apr 8, 2010

The Kaiser and Sapa flatbar I have had to weld in the last 6 months has been %100 shit. I haven't had any issues machining it however. Alcoa has been better but I haven't found a local source that stocks it yet. Luckily I don't work with much Aluminum.

Bob Looney · Apr 8, 2010

I know what you're going thru....

david n · Apr 8, 2010

I just pounded through 2500lbs of kaiser material with no problems. It was all rounds, 1.875, 2.375, and 3.125.

westk · Apr 8, 2010

The shop I work for uses tons and tons of kaiser aluminum, literally. Never heard of a problem with it.

PaulT · Apr 8, 2010

IAMATT, what size bar stock are you using?

I know this sounds far fetched, but how well do you know this supplier, its it possible that someone is remarking chinese 6061 with counterfeited Kaiser stamps?

Paul T.

fpworks · Apr 8, 2010

I had a nice dose of Kaiser crap a couple years ago that cost me a LOT of money. Sounds exactly like what Matt had. I got in a big pissing match with our distributor...looking back in my emails, this was the position of our distributor based on their correspondence with Kaiser. Quoted directly:

"As a result of your machining process, the material was altered, resulting in the metal to be out of specifications and causing additional manufacturing costs related to this material."

Yes, they claimed that our machining processes (milling) altered the material. Needless to say, I don't use this distributor anymore.

I specify NOT Kaiser to my new distributors, but in some cases it is unavoidable. I am always on high alert when I start to machine a new batch of material with Kaiser bar stock. So far, I haven't had a repeat.

Legdoc · Apr 8, 2010

I have some Kaiser 1/8"x2" extruded stock that had an unbelieveable finish on one flat side. You know how a wide broom can be used to finish concrete to make it rough? The die must have been way shot. No QA!
Legdoc

Pat G · Apr 8, 2010

Been getting good lots and junk lots from both Kaiser and Sapa for the past year. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Some of it machines horribly, and some tears up bits.

skinnekid · Apr 9, 2010

Legdoc said:
I have some Kaiser 1/8"x2" extruded stock that had an unbelieveable finish on one flat side. You know how a wide broom can be used to finish concrete to make it rough? The die must have been way shot. No QA!
Legdoc

We have noticed the same thing the last couple times we have ordered aluminum.

viper · Apr 9, 2010

Someone needs to send this to every supplier in their chains so Kaiser gets bombarded with complaints and realizes the jig is up and they can either do it right or go out of business. There should also be an addendum to the standards to control grain size. That is a structural issue as well and I would think someone like Boeing stand to carry a large interest in the matter.

CCC · Apr 9, 2010

Legdoc said:
I have some Kaiser 1/8"x2" extruded stock that had an unbelieveable finish on one flat side. You know how a wide broom can be used to finish concrete to make it rough? The die must have been way shot. No QA!
Legdoc

I got some of that same material, same size. Mine was also at the very low end of the (already wide) width and thickness tolerances, so there was no way to clean it up anywhere close to nominal size.

cdn farmer · Apr 9, 2010

Knock on wood we`ve had very little trouble with kaiser or sapa bar stock or rounds,,other than some of the kaiser bar stock has been quite a bit oversize,,
I have had trouble with a batch of 11" dia bar cut into slugs that I got from a new supplier,,It was horrible for roughing,soft and gummy and stuck like glue to the cutters,,it did finish nice though,,the paper work said russia was the country of origin,,
Lesson learned to stick with my original supplier even if its acouple bucks more,,,

Limy Sami · Apr 9, 2010

viper said:
Someone needs to send this to every supplier in their chains so Kaiser gets bombarded with complaints and realizes the jig is up and they can either do it right or go out of business. There should also be an addendum to the standards to control grain size. That is a structural issue as well and I would think someone like Boeing stand to carry a large interest in the matter.

Or you can start with every one of this lot

Kaiser Aluminum Executive Management | Jack Hockema

Do this lot at the same time.

Kaiser Aluminum Board of Directors

Then with the lack of response / BS etc etc, send the whole caboodle here

Europe Edition - Wall Street Journal - Latest News, Breaking Stories, Top Headlines - WSJ.com

It's called stirring the s***

Guest · Apr 9, 2010

PaulT said:
IAMATT, what size bar stock are you using?

I know this sounds far fetched, but how well do you know this supplier, its it possible that someone is remarking chinese 6061 with counterfeited Kaiser stamps?

Paul T.

I kind of thought of that myself. Some Chinese Aluminum comes from the mill with no markings. The problems he describes are common with Chinese 6061 and no one else seems to be complaining about Kaiser Aluminum's machining characteristics.

Joe788 · Apr 9, 2010

Dualkit said:
I kind of thought of that myself. Some Chinese Aluminum comes from the mill with no markings. The problems he describes are common with Chinese 6061 and no one else seems to be complaining about Kaiser Aluminum's machining characteristics.

I had a disaster with Kaiser about a year and a half ago. It was a few thousand pounds 6 x .750 flat bar. It had what appeared to be dissimilar material embedded in it. Of course, it was on a part that is anodized bright red, and has a big, flat, shiny cosmetic surface. It was covered with white spots after the anodize. With a little pocket microscope, you could actually see the seam between each of the little white bubbles and the rest of the material. They tried to claim there was no problem, and only replaced the material after my distributor showed them our monthly usage and assured them we wouldn't be purchasing any more Kaiser material.

paul39 · Apr 9, 2010

I agree with Viper & Limy Sami.

If someone is remarking junk, Kaiser has deep enough pockets and clout to see that fixed.

Paul

Kaiser aluminum sucks part 2

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