surface quality of 3+2 vs. simultaneous CAM programming

supercaliber64 · Mar 3, 2014

Hello,

We are considering a new machine to produce small aluminum molds, either a Makino F5+Koma 4th axis rotary or a Mazak VCU 400-5X 5-axis.
My questions is not on the machine, but on programming 3+2 vs. simultaneous and which will achieve a better surface quality.
Both machines have 20k HSK spindles. Accuracy of the Makino is tighter then the Mazak.

Anyone have experience with improved surface quality from simultaneous 4 or 5 axis programming vs. 3+2 positional programming?

6061Mike · Mar 3, 2014

supercaliber64 said:
Hello,

We are considering a new machine to produce small aluminum molds, either a Makino F5+Koma 4th axis rotary or a Mazak VCU 400-5X 5-axis.
My questions is not on the machine, but on programming 3+2 vs. simultaneous and which will achieve a better surface quality.
Both machines have 20k HSK spindles. Accuracy of the Makino is tighter then the Mazak.

Anyone have experience with improved surface quality from simultaneous 4 or 5 axis programming vs. 3+2 positional programming?

I have done full 5 axis and found it is not near the quality of 3+2. This was on a new (2012 at the time) Fanuc Robodrill with the Nikken table. We used Mastercam and Camplete to generate the code. I should add that they were typically long slender parts that were problematic to begin with...

5 axis Fidia guy · Mar 3, 2014

You will never achieve a finish as well with a simultanious toolpath, as with a 3 plus 2, reguardless of the programming software or machine

dstryr · Mar 3, 2014

Id say it depends...5 axis simul toolpaths on a hermle Ive seen are amazing...

Vancbiker · Mar 3, 2014

supercaliber64 said:
Accuracy of the Makino is tighter then the Mazak.

The quality of the Makino is better than the Mazak too, in my experience.

MK Proto · Mar 3, 2014

You will be better off with the 3+2 for those machines as they dont have the rotary speed to do economical simultaneous 5axis tool paths. For really small molds this would be my machine choice.

Mikron HSM 200U LP Accuracy Part - YouTube

Joe788 · Mar 3, 2014

supercaliber64 said:
Hello,

We are considering a new machine to produce small aluminum molds, either a Makino F5+Koma 4th axis rotary or a Mazak VCU 400-5X 5-axis.

How did you end up narrowing it down to these two machines? One is basically a dedicated high end 40x20 mold machine with a 4th axis bolted on, and the other is the lowest end of Mazak's 3 groups of 5 axis machines. Very different machine types, sizes, and intended uses. Not to say you couldn't make nice molds on the VCU, but if mold making is your thing, you'll almost certainly be better off with the F5.

supercaliber64 · Mar 3, 2014

Joe788 said:
How did you end up narrowing it down to these two machines? One is basically a dedicated high end 40x20 mold machine with a 4th axis bolted on, and the other is the lowest end of Mazak's 3 groups of 5 axis machines. Very different machine types, sizes, and intended uses. Not to say you couldn't make nice molds on the VCU, but if mold making is your thing, you'll almost certainly be better off with the F5.

Joe788, thanks for the feedback. I have a $ amount to stay under. I taked with Makino, Okuma, Mazak, and Hurco.
The VCU with a 20K HSK spindle (which is a new option available late April) puts me about $30K above the Makino.
Okuma has a Genos line, but it's running CAT40 big+ and is 15k vs. the Makino 20K HSK spindle.
And Hurco was my other 5 axis option, the speed and accuracy arent' as good as the Mazak and the price was the same.

The Makino is by far the best bang for the buck. I'm try to understand is there an advantage to simultaneous programming in the mold industry in regards to surface finish.

5 axis Fidia guy · Mar 3, 2014

supercaliber64 said:
I'm try to understand is there an advantage to simultaneous programming in the mold industry in regards to surface finish.

For what it's worth, I do more than 95% of our mold work using only 3 plus 2 machining, for many reasons, surface finish being just one of them.

upnorth5axis · Mar 3, 2014

I think it will depend on configuration of the molds if you can even benefit from the 5-axis motion. A quality machine with a Quality Control , and a quality CAM system, along with a Quality Programmer can get some very good surface finishes with 5axis motion , but sometimes it is better to do 2 + 3. I don't think there is a one size fits all here. For me full 5-axis is easier to program and you will make the part faster with better finishes sometimes.

MK Proto · Mar 3, 2014

3+2 is also much faster to program 90% of the time.

Matt_W · Mar 3, 2014

MK Proto said:
3+2 is also much faster to program 90% of the time.

I would say that's dependent on the CAM system.

upnorth5axis · Mar 3, 2014

MK Proto said:
3+2 is also much faster to program 90% of the time.

This is dependent on Cam System and Experience of the programmer

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