shizuoka ST-N or Bandit controller manual

I am considering a shizuoka ST-N mill with a Bandit controller, which I plan to upgrade in a year or so. I am unable to find a manual for either and hesitate to buy a mill I cannot get the info on.
ALSO does anyone out there own this machine with the ATC? I am wondering if the ATC could be re-created via reverse engineering. In short, anything can be copied; does anyone out there even own an example?

CaptnBlynd said:

.....ALSO does anyone out there own this machine with the ATC? I am wondering if the ATC could be re-created via reverse engineering. In short, anything can be copied; does anyone out there even own an example?

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An absolute waste of time and money. Even if you got the machine for free. If you want a toolchanger, look at a different machine.

I've worked some on the Shizouka AN-S with a toolchanger and believe that the ST-N was the same. It was a 3rd party device added on by the company doing the CNC integration. It was a POS when nearly new and age will not have improved it.

If it was a QuickDraw tool changer that flipped the tool over like an old west gun slinger you are looking at the Fadal brothers first product! I had an ANS with one.

My shizouka AN-S had the quick throw tool changer. I had to buy a bunch of holders and have the flanges ground so it would hold them better.

Still, that was my first CNC. X1.0 is feeding, /X1.0 is rapid. Don't screw that up.

ATC not a big deal

Vancbiker said:

An absolute waste of time and money. Even if you got the machine for free. If you want a toolchanger, look at a different machine.

I've worked some on the Shizouka AN-S with a toolchanger and believe that the ST-N was the same. It was a 3rd party device added on by the company doing the CNC integration. It was a POS when nearly new and age will not have improved it.

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I'm not particularly looking for a machine which has ATC, just interested in the one I saw associated with this one. I'm a student looking at older CNC for a learning machine. Looking at a mid 80s Bridgeport series 1 CNC and an 80s shizuoka st-n currently. I'll do a rebuild to modernize the electronics on whatever I buy but would like to learn whatever it comes with before I do that, I am doing this to learn after all.
Tool changer aside, any opinion on these older machines? The shizuoka has a massive envelope and I've heard good things about the steel and build quality. Bridgeport is Bridgeport.

CaptnBlynd said:

.....I'm a student looking at older CNC for a learning machine.

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Had this been in the original post, I'd probably have given a slightly different response...

In general, Shizouka made excellent iron. All the ST-N and AN-S machines were imported by Yamazen as bare iron. A variety of US companies did the NC and CNC integrations with varying success and quality. You'll find them with controls from Bandit, Slo-Syn, Fanuc/General Numeric, Dynapath, and probably others. When looking at machines this old it really comes down to the condition of each machine as it is now, not what it was new.

I had one in mint condition with a Bandit and toolchanger.

Absolute pile of shit.

I would start with a VMC. Something with a real toolchanger so you can atleast learn how real machines do it.

Garwood said:

I would start with a VMC. Something with a real toolchanger so you can atleast learn how real machines do it.

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I'll do a rebuild to modernize the electronics on whatever I buy

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Are you looking for a hobby or are you looking to make chips??

If you are looking to make chips, like Garwood said, just go buy a VMC.. Just make sure
its still supported and you can get parts...

I've also got some Bandit manuals here.. At least I think they are still here.
The thing is a pain in the ass.. Put it on basically
a knee mill, with no tool changer and its basically useless for all but the simplest stuff.
Almost better off with a hammer and a chisel.

I have a Shizouka ANS with a modern version of the Bandit (called Shadow) sitting here ready to go. Not quite ready, it's sat for so many years that the battery in the controller needs replacing, I'm not sure if it lost all its parameters or what. But when I got the Haas VF3 in, I never turned that machine on again. That's how good it was

Actually, I did run it for a few years....it has the Quickdraw toolchanger and it all worked. Still, the limitation of 7" quill extension can be a real bottleneck. Plus, it's an open machine so using flood is out of the question. The Shadow controller was pretty well maintenance free compared to the Bandit, which you never knew from one day to the next if you had to pull and reseat all the boards on the backplane in hopes it would fire up.

The Quickdraw toolchanger seemed to have one small circuit board (on the impact wrench driver for the spindle drawbar) that 'got tired' frequently and would need to be swapped out. I think the repair guys just replaced some of the transistors and it would be good for another while.

It would be a real shame to restore a Bandit controller since it has such a tiny memory (1000 word addresses) and offbreed form of G code that requires a whole lot of tweaking to make a post processor to make code for it. Plus, any CAM today will not make actual use of most of the Bandit's shortcuts (special routines) that helped it do a lot, in a very small program. Hell, the entry ramp for a helical path nowadays would overfill the memory, but the Bandit could do it with 4 words of code.