small TSC carbide drill not breaking chips

wheelieking71 · Apr 18, 2018

I am getting a little nervous about this little guy. I am admittedly out of my element here.
My only through coolant drill experience is in a lathe, and much larger drills.
This is a .125"dia. Walter/Titex A3389DPL. And, the chips are coming out strings, as seen here:

I called Walter for help. Got a cocky young kid that laughed at me and told me I didn't have enough SFM (thanks kid, good job!).
His guidance was: (I am in 6061) 3000sfm and .003"ipt. Well, I don't have 90,000rpm LOL
I am running it at 16k and 200ipm (about .006ipt). Everything I know tells me to lean on it harder to break the chip.
What say you guys that work with these little tsc drills all the time?

Milland · Apr 18, 2018

Around 300 PSI? May be too low for ideal use at that size, the pressure drop through the tiny holes can kill effective pressure. It also looks like you're close to "smearing" the chip into the tool, which could get expensive.

If you can afford the extra time, perhaps hand coding a semi-peck drill cycle where you go (for instance) one diameter, dwell for .1 second, another diameter and dwell, etc. may help. Don't retract, just dwell long enough to shear the chip and start the next one.

May also want to richen the coolant to get some more lubricity.

Bobw · Apr 18, 2018

I don't know your answer, but it just might be the material..

Just last week, I was running hundreds of parts with a 1" twisty drill, 2.5" deep in 6061...
Running great at .040 a rev, 500sfm, no peck... I knew we were going to run a bit short so
I had the customer order up another half stick.. I couldn't get ANYTHING to break. Stringers
EVERYWHERE, even on the boring bar and groove tools that were doing beautiful on the first
batch of material.. NOTHING I tried on that half stick would break a chip, and it was 6061 T651,
just a different brand (a brand I'd never heard of).

It was like 2 completely different materials, and I know EXACTLY what 2024 would do, because I used
a half stick of that also.... Leftover from the last go-round on these parts, but the customer finally
DUG in the notes, and sure enough *alternate material 6061 per blah blah blah... About 1/2 the price.

I'm just pointing out that it might not be YOU, and it might not be the TOOL.... It might be the
MATERIAL..

dstryr · Apr 18, 2018

Ive had the same problems with the same drills.... I've always gone to a G73 cycle on anything under a 1/4 and added maybe 2-4 pecks. The machine is so fast that you dont even notice a cycle increase. I think you truly need 1000 psi mininum to get their smaller tools to work.

Walter recommendation on their site is exactly what you did for Feed.

doug925 · Apr 18, 2018

I think a small "miro-dwell" is probably a quick solution.
What is the smallest amount of time your machine can dwell? You will only need 3-4 revolutions before continuing.

It could just as easily be the material, as Bob stated. We've all been there. One stick machines beautifully, and the next is CRAP! LOL

wheelieking71 · Apr 18, 2018

This material is a custom extrusion. So, if its the material I am stuck dealing with it. (from SAPPA here in Chandler)
I don't have an issues drilling it with the YG-1 Gold-P cobalt drills I have been using in the HAAS.
Over there I was running 8000rpm and 16ipm with .125" pecks (.900" deep hole).
I changed those drills @ about 5000 holes. But, it is usually fine. I figure for $3 why not over there.

I'll see if I can figure out a dwell.........(new machine I ain't used to)

dstryr · Apr 18, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
This material is a custom extrusion. So, if its the material I am stuck dealing with it. (from SAPPA here in Chandler)
I don't have an issues drilling it with the YG-1 Gold-P cobalt drills I have been using in the HAAS.
Over there I was running 8000rpm and 16ipm with .125" pecks (.900" deep hole).
I changed those drills @ about 5000 holes. But, it is usually fine. I figure for $3 why not over there.

If you run your parameters in the walter GPS it doesn't even recommend a carbide drill. Probably because you dont have enough RPM to make the SFM. Walter app actually recommends a HSS parabolic style drill.

wheelieking71 · Apr 18, 2018

dstryr said:
If you run your parameters in the walter GPS it doesn't even recommend a carbide drill. Probably because you dont have enough RPM to make the SFM. Walter app actually recommends a HSS parabolic style drill.

Yea, I have already been thinking of switching. I started messing with that app on their site. But, didn't have time to finish figuring it out.

The 17/64 drill that runs after the 1/8" (same A3389DPL) runs perfect. 16k and 300ipm. Throws chips like an end-mill.

Do I dare try leaning on the feed for the 1/8" before I try changing the process to a dwell or peck?

dstryr · Apr 18, 2018

wheelieking71 said:
Yea, I have already been thinking of switching. I started messing with that app on their site. But, didn't have time to finish figuring it out.

The 17/64 drill that runs after the 1/8" (same A3389DPL) runs perfect. 16k and 300ipm. Throws chips like an end-mill.

Do I dare try leaning on the feed for the 1/8" before I try changing the process to a dwell or peck?

Looking at your picture you are going to have to go up a lot to break that mess. You have broken tool detection working? Crank her up!

My rep is really good out here. If I told him what was going on and we sped it up and it broke he would replace for free

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 18, 2018

How deep you need to go? This drill from Guhring is crazy good in 6061:

Series: 5514 EDP: 9055140031700

No pecking up to 4 x D. Recommended feeds and speeds 855 SFM, .010" /Rev.. You will be at 16K and 160 IPM. Flute length is 20mm.

wheelieking71 · Apr 18, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
How deep you need to go? This drill from Guhring is crazy good in 6061:

Series: 5514 EDP: 9055140031700

No pecking up to 4 x D. Recommended feeds and speeds 855 SFM, .010" /Rev.. You will be at 16K and 160 IPM. Flute length is 20mm.

.900" deep Frank

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 18, 2018

Doooh! Did you run the Titex at the 96 IPM they suggest? Titex is good stuff. Where is your pressure set on your CTS? I know someone that ran them at 500 PSI...

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 18, 2018

If you need to peck, G73 is a High Speed Peck Drilling Cycle. It is just a chip breaker not full retract. It backs up about .010" between pecks. Just use G73 instead of G83 and add Q for peck amount. Are you sure you have a CTS pull stud and collet and are getting coolant through the tool? Just asking!

gkoenig · Apr 18, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
How deep you need to go? This drill from Guhring is crazy good in 6061:

Series: 5514 EDP: 9055140031700

No pecking up to 4 x D. Recommended feeds and speeds 855 SFM, .010" /Rev.. You will be at 16K and 160 IPM. Flute length is 20mm.

He won't make it with the 0.900" hole depth. Guhring says that drill's max depth is .0599".

I might try the carbide, 3 flute, parabolic, 150 degree tip angle MA Ford 229 Twister AL here.

NAST555 · Apr 19, 2018

I would think that a normal HSS drill of that size might be the better option. Split point, and either a G73 as suggested or a custom sub peck. That is pretty deep for that drill so maybe a small peck up to 3xD and then full retract maybe twice after that. I suppose as you know, and others in this thread, that generally speaking if you are not breaking a drill chip then increase the feed till you are happy but that does not always work.

In my opinion Titex drills kick butt in the right situations, I have even run loads of their plain parabolic HSS one's. You need space for the chip to roll up and break off so I don't think a 3 flute would help as there is less space for it to roll up, but I could be wrong.

Tonytn36 · Apr 19, 2018

I'm running Walter coolant through 2.0-3.2 mm carbide drills at 130 IPM / 15k in aluminum, no pecks on a Brother with TSC. These have some type of coating on the first 10 mm or so. I'll see about getting the number off of one today. Best drill I've found for this.

gkoenig · Apr 19, 2018

Tonytn36 said:
I'm running Walter coolant through 2.0-3.2 mm carbide drills at 130 IPM / 15k in aluminum, no pecks on a Brother with TSC. These have some type of coating on the first 10 mm or so. I'll see about getting the number off of one today. Best drill I've found for this.

Is that the Brother 1.5mPa TSC? I always thought the lower pressure TSI wasn't much help on drills below .25"?

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 19, 2018

gkoenig said:
Is that the Brother 1.5mPa TSC? I always thought the lower pressure TSI wasn't much help on drills below .25"?

Speedios are 3 MPa (435 PSI) with CTSI.

BROTHERFRANK · Apr 19, 2018

Tonytn36 said:
I'm running Walter coolant through 2.0-3.2 mm carbide drills at 130 IPM / 15k in aluminum, no pecks on a Brother with TSC. These have some type of coating on the first 10 mm or so. I'll see about getting the number off of one today. Best drill I've found for this.

Gummy 6061?

litlerob1 · Apr 19, 2018

gkoenig said:
He won't make it with the 0.900" hole depth. Guhring says that drill's max depth is .0599".

I might try the carbide, 3 flute, parabolic, 150 degree tip angle MA Ford 229 Twister AL here.

This is maybe the only time I would agree that something other than Guhring might be a better fit. The 3 flute Twisters are some bad MFers- BUT they are not coolant through Drills.

R

small TSC carbide drill not breaking chips

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