Solid Carbide High Feed Milling

Shop Supply Guru · Dec 9, 2016

I am distributor rep and I have had a couple of customer's recently ask me about solid carbide high feed end mill's. Is anyone on here using these tools currently or in the past? It seems like a new trend and I would like to get some opinions on benefits and downfalls. Thanks in advance.

Mike1974 · Dec 10, 2016

We tried one a few years back. I think it was around 1/2" diameter. Iscar I believe. They were trying to compete with a 1/2" inserted ball mill we used. We tried it on a couple parts and it (feed mill) could not keep up with inserted ball. That is about all the info I can give you, sorry.

Red James · Dec 10, 2016

I used one successfully several years ago to machine stacked shims. The idea is like HSM but take a shallow depth of cut and feed very fast. Worked like a champ on staked shims because the depth of cut was light enough to work well with the steel shims (0.003 - 0.015 thick). I recall using CONVENTIONAL milling to throw the chips away from the finished wall. Accuracy suffered from the high feed rate as the control was not advanced enough to look ahead far enough . . . sort of cut corners when changing cut directions.

I was NOT happy with using the tools for normal cutting; conventional end mills performed better for me.

Jashley73 · Dec 10, 2016

These cutters work better, the worse that cutting conditions become. They're more of a problem-solvig-tool, not a use-it-for-everything-tool. They're also pretty expensive too.

I have a lot of solid carbide high feed mills at my disposal, but you really have to have a good case for using them. If it's more of a general use solution, and you can standard a tapered-shank, I'd be more likely to recommend a screw-on replaceable tip tool, because of there greater flexibility. That said, if they're cutting steel over 45hrc, or some ugly Super-alloys, then the solid tools become more of an option.

2outof3 · Dec 10, 2016

We use them all the time with customers who buy Brother machines. Mostly .375 5 flute variables. Iscar and Fullerton have been the tools of choice.

Shop Supply Guru · Dec 10, 2016

2outof3 said:
We use them all the time with customers who buy Brother machines. Mostly .375 5 flute variables. Iscar and Fullerton have been the tools of choice.

Are you talking about high feed milling? We sell the Iscar solid carbide high feed mill and they only have 4 flutes in 3/8". See pictured. Just to be clear I'm talking about tools like the Iscar style in the attached picture.

CarbideBob · Dec 10, 2016

Not a real useful picture.
If high feed style cutter the big bummer is they do not like cuts that have walls unless you can leave a draft on each depth pass.
Bob

Shop Supply Guru · Dec 10, 2016

Better? Lol

2outof3 · Dec 10, 2016

Sorry, I was thinking this.

ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - EC-E5L-CF : 5622537 - EC-E5L 8-2C8CF63

007Rob · Dec 10, 2016

I love the OSG high feed mills for roughing and semi-finishing parts with lots of 3d surfaces like mold cores and cavities where HSM style toolpaths lose some of their advantage because of the many stepdowns required to get the surface close to the final shape.

http://www.osgtool.com/blog/post/faster-production-with-the-wxs-high-feed-corner-radius-end-mill1

I have tried the ISCAR equivalent but they don't seem to run as smooth for me.

CarbideBob · Dec 10, 2016

Shop Supply Guru said:
Better? Lol

Maybe, if you understand that Ap max and why the 7 degree undercut.
Strange is that this does not call out the lead on the bottom as a angle for the chip thinning which is the whole point of this type tool and makes it silly fast.
A figgen great idea and seriously crazy go fast tool at 5-20x times normal feedrates.
Sort of fussy about how you use it.
I do really like this type cutting. It is just plain out fill the train-car with metal.
Notice the actual true flat "floor" diameter of such a cutter.

This is a high speed "niche" tool and you should identify and recommenced to your customers based on their needs.
That is why they pay you.
Bob

316head · Dec 10, 2016

How do these solid carbide fast feed mills perform better than a FF mini/multimaster? When they get broken or used up you have to replace the whole thing. We have a few solid carbide mills but I haven't had a need to use it yet. Iscar multimaster with a replaceable head has worked well in every situation.

Jashley73 · Dec 10, 2016

316head said:
How do these solid carbide fast feed mills perform better than a FF mini/multimaster? When they get broken or used up you have to replace the whole thing. We have a few solid carbide mills but I haven't had a need to use it yet. Iscar multimaster with a replaceable head has worked well in every situation.

The crossover point is around a 1/2" or 12mm. I'm not sure how small the Iscar & other replaceable-tip systems go down, but Seco's Minimaster-Plus system goes down to 3/8" & 10mm. The point however, is that these screw-on systems are limited in their sizing - too small, and you can no longer have a strong & stable connection. So below that, your only choice is solid-carbide. The screw-on style tools fill the gap between solid-carbide, and indexable-insert type tools. They also allow you to quickly re-purpose a tool, from High-Feed, to general purpose endmills, to specific use endmills with a twist.

My guess though, is that the solid-carbide high-feed tools will probably do better at 60+ HRC materials, but that's mainly speculation, assuming that the carbide rod is better suited for harder materials.

Regarding high-feed cutters next to vertical walls, the trick is to not take a full-width pass against a vertical wall. If you can position the last pass next to a vertical wall, so that it's a light width pass, the extra pressure from the cutter touching a vertical wall will be negligible. Since the radial-engagement of the largest diameter of the cutter, against the wall will be minimal, the radial chip-thinning principle should keep the tool safe as it's touching the vertical wall.

Jashley73 · Dec 10, 2016

Here's a cool video showing a good application for these tools. When you need hours of tool life in hardened tool steels. In the video, they're cutting D2 @ 60HRC...

Jabro(R)-HFM JHF181; Feed your hunger for faster metal removal - YouTube

Shop Supply Guru · Dec 10, 2016

007Rob said:
I love the OSG high feed mills for roughing and semi-finishing parts with lots of 3d surfaces like mold cores and cavities where HSM style toolpaths lose some of their advantage because of the many stepdowns required to get the surface close to the final shape.

http://www.osgtool.com/blog/post/faster-production-with-the-wxs-high-feed-corner-radius-end-mill1

I have tried the ISCAR equivalent but they don't seem to run as smooth for me.

Thanks. What sizes are you using? Can you throw out some speeds & feeds?

5 axis Fidia guy · Dec 12, 2016

Yes I do, on a daily basis. I cut Hard H-13, S-7 and 420ss.. I have tried many makes and models, including. Fraisa, Pokolm, Millstar, Iscar, Hanita, Kyrocera, Jabro, Emuge. I just got an Inova but have not run it yet.. I used Millstar and it was a favorite for many years, however the Kyrocera is a very nice one as well. I just ran the Iscar for the first time a few weeks ago, and I will say up front I am not a huge Iscar fan, but the tool ran very nice, as well as Millstar and maybe even slightly better. I am looking forward to the Inova, it has a little more positive face on the tool and I am hoping it helps with the Stainless steel. PS. most of my tools like this are 6mm dia, and 3mm dia. I have used many High feed bullnose style tools like the OGS mentioned above, but the true "high Feed" grind on other tools will outrun them in every case in every material, at least on my applications.

007Rob · Dec 12, 2016

Shop Supply Guru said:
Thanks. What sizes are you using? Can you throw out some speeds & feeds?

We're a mold shop that works on a lot of smaller parts, the most common size I use would be the 8mm and 10mm, but I often use several of them in successively smaller sizes roughing out a workpiece ie. 8mm-6mm-3mm-2mm.

I basically use the lower end feeds and speeds out of the OSG catalog,using the 8mm high feed mill cutting P20 I will run .0078" DOC, 30% stepover, 425SFM and feed around .021"/tooth or 350IPM.

If it's a part with lots of sharp corners where I don't think it will be able to keep up the feedrate I might dial the SFM back a bit so I can keep the chipload up.

For hard milling H13 @ 56-58 I would drop the SFM back to 350 or so and keep the DOC and chipload the same.

eaglemike · Dec 12, 2016

007Rob said:
We're a mold shop that works on a lot of smaller parts, the most common size I use would be the 8mm and 10mm, but I often use several of them in successively smaller sizes roughing out a workpiece ie. 8mm-6mm-3mm-2mm.

I basically use the lower end feeds and speeds out of the OSG catalog,using the 8mm high feed mill cutting P20 I will run .0078" DOC, 30% stepover, 425SFM and feed around .021"/tooth or 350IPM.

If it's a part with lots of sharp corners where I don't think it will be able to keep up the feedrate I might dial the SFM back a bit so I can keep the chipload up.

For hard milling H13 @ 56-58 I would drop the SFM back to 350 or so and keep the DOC and chipload the same.

Just checking to be sure - really only .0078 depth of cut?

michiganbuck · Dec 12, 2016

Back in the 60s we made home made a 3/4' steel shank 2 1/2 " long with a brazed 5/16 x 1" rectangle of carbide..for a straight 2 flute end mill that would chop off .040 x 3/8 chips that sounded like a machine gun for red hot chips as fast as we could turn the bridge port long travel.
Yes not milling hard stock.

Used to lathe turn hard stock at 3400 and take about .003 truing grinder wheel mounts for OD and face..

Mike1974 · Dec 12, 2016

eaglemike said:
Just checking to be sure - really only .0078 depth of cut?

I would guess that is close. I have used an 1" Mitsubishi high feed mill and recommended max doc was .035".

Solid Carbide High Feed Milling

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