Source for 3FL Carbide 1.5"LOC roughers

SeymourDumore · May 18, 2018

Guys, like the title says, I am looking for a 3FL fine pitch Carbide roughers with a LOC of 1.5.

I have a bunch of 2" LOC cobalts, and they are doing the job, but damm they're also driving me ( and everyone else ) NUTS!!! with the noise.

Parts are 1.42" thick and I am slotting through them in a single pass ( extrusions with varying thickness, 1.42 is max )
I've had one oddball carbide with a 1.5" length and it was absolutely flawless until one miserable extrusion got loose in the fixture and put an end to it.

Unfortunately I cannot find a single indication as to who made it.

Alternately I'd be willing to get 2" LOC carbides and have the grinding house cut off the excess, unfortunately I cannot find those either.

Please note that I do NOT want the rougher/finisher type with the flat serrations!

Milland · May 18, 2018

What's your preferred diameter?

SeymourDumore · May 18, 2018

Duhh!!!

1/2" dia, but can use metric 12 or 14mm as well.

Bobw · May 18, 2018

1.5" loc in 1/2" is not the easiest thing to find. They jump from 1.25 to 2"..

I HAD a few 1.5" loc I got years ago, and I used 'em up.. Never been able to
get them easily (cheaply) since..

And in a 3 flute rougher..... That's a tall order.....

Try Maritool, his tool guy might make 'em for you.. And then they will make a bunch,
and he'll sell them to anybody.. From what I understand, if somebody wants something a
bit "off", they'll make 'em, and then anybody can buy 'em.. figure there are 7 billion
or so people in the world... If you need it, odds are somebody else does also.

Ianagos · May 18, 2018

Source for 3FL Carbide 1.5"LOC roughers

SeymourDumore said:
Duhh!!!

1/2" dia, but can use metric 12 or 14mm as well.

1/2" 3 FLUTE CARBIDE ZrN COATED LONG END MILL High Performance USA 273-5ZL 85543876 | eBay

Honestly I don’t even think you looked took me less than 30 seconds.

Edit saw the post above saying about a rougher I understood that you wanted a finisher not a rougher although you say you do not want a rougher/finisher so I’m confused. Of what I posted works then let me know if it’s any good I’ve been wanting to try them

CGC Tool Gorilla Mill 1/2” Solid Carbide 3FL Square End Mill GMA12FL3 | eBay

Also accupro from msc #65250201

SeymourDumore · May 19, 2018

Ianagos said:
you say you do not want a rougher/finisher so I’m confused.

Clarification.

This is what I meant by rougher/finisher:
Niagara Cutter N6798 Cobalt Steel End Mill, Non Center Cut Rougher/Finisher, TiAlN Coated, 6 Flutes, Chamfer End, 6" Cutting Length, 2" Cutting Diameter: Square Nose End Mills: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Note the flats on the tip of the serration.
Clever thinkin' , not so good in real life ( from my experience )

I'd like the real-thing, such as this: 1/2 dia 3 Flute 45deg High Helix Carbide Rougher X 1. LOC MariTool

but, in a 1.5 LOC

Note to Frank ( Maritool) or Carbidebob or ....
Could you please chime in if that is something possible from your grinder?
Interesting that a 2" LOC rougher is pretty much always Cobalt or powder metal, but 1 1/4" can always be had in Carbide.
Is there a scientific reason that above that dia/LOC ratio carbide just doesn't make sense?

At the same time, I cannot possibly be the only schmuck who needs something between 1.250 and 2.000 depth?
And this ain't my first rodeo, proven by the numerous necked-down std. roughers I have in the drawers...

Ianagos · May 19, 2018

SeymourDumore said:
Clarification.

This is what I meant by rougher/finisher:
Niagara Cutter N6798 Cobalt Steel End Mill, Non Center Cut Rougher/Finisher, TiAlN Coated, 6 Flutes, Chamfer End, 6" Cutting Length, 2" Cutting Diameter: Square Nose End Mills: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Note the flats on the tip of the serration.
Clever thinkin' , not so good in real life ( from my experience )

I'd like the real-thing, such as this: 1/2 dia 3 Flute 45deg High Helix Carbide Rougher X 1. LOC MariTool

but, in a 1.5 LOC

Note to Frank ( Maritool) or Carbidebob or ....
Could you please chime in if that is something possible from your grinder?
Interesting that a 2" LOC rougher is pretty much always Cobalt or powder metal, but 1 1/4" can always be had in Carbide.
Is there a scientific reason that above that dia/LOC ratio carbide just doesn't make sense?

At the same time, I cannot possibly be the only schmuck who needs something between 1.250 and 2.000 depth?
And this ain't my first rodeo, proven by the numerous necked-down std. roughers I have in the drawers...

Nap Gladu RS743, 1/2 x 1/2 x 1-5/8 x 4 Carbide Helix Upcut Rougher Router Bit | eBay

You could try this. Looks like about what you need. Pricey though.

CarbideBob · May 19, 2018

No reason it can't be made.
The "core" here is small so your longer depth means easy to break so it becomes a special application tool not a production/catalog run guy.
Cobalt and powdered metal will take deflection during use that carbide will not when you have this core dia.
That core and overhang needed in the grinder also presents a few problems but that can be overcome. (you just have to grind "nicer")
I know Frank's place well, top notch and well tooled. They will build anything you want but special runs in small quantities from anybody are not like standard runs where you make 500-1000 and put them on the shelf.
Think the pricing you give out for 1-2 vs 500, us tool guys have programming/setup times too
Due to the steps we will scrap a few so for 1-2 we have to start with 4-5 or eat some or spend enormous time getting each step right, you can't "go big", measure and reload these and make a second try.
You get one shot.

Since Frank's house/system will make almost what you need poke him for a quote as it is simple extension onto their programs although feeds will have to be cut back some and you may cross the line of external support being needed. (which is always done in HSS but the carbide guys don't like for a cost/accuracy reasons)

It's more a market thing than anything else.
At your numbers you start need a user who knows what they are doing.
Catalog standards need to be aimed at the general use public with a suitable low failure rate and the market for more length is small so you don't want a ton of them sitting on the inventory list for decades.
Bob

eaglemike · May 19, 2018

I ordered some mildly custom end mills from Frank. Only 1/4", qty 100, so somewhat different than your situation. Price was very fair. Maybe get a few other people interested, and make it worthwhile?

SeymourDumore · May 19, 2018

CarbideBob said:
No reason it can't be made.
The "core" here is small so your longer depth means easy to break so it becomes a special application tool not a production/catalog run guy.
Cobalt and powdered metal will take deflection during use that carbide will not when you have this core dia.

Bob, thanks for chiming in!!!

So please let me ask:
Does that mean that the 1 1/4" LOC for a 1/2" diameter rougher is dancing on the pin of a needle for strength, or that any request above a 1 1/4 is typically much much over standard requirement,
meaning one needs a 2" LOC which is now in the realm of nothing but Cobalt or Powder?

Is there a reason for a global jump from 1 1/4" Carbide to a 2" Cobalt?
Would a 1 1/2" Carbide need special attention?
Why are we accustomed to going from 1" to 1 1/4" with no penalty, and then from 1 1/4" to 2" with nothing in-between?

Sidenote:
As far as catalogue and "standard", I have 5 pieces of custom made 1/2-13 taps that are 16" OAL with a 1" pilot.
The manufacturer explicitly stated "No Guarantee" on the order as far as function, but they have made it and to-date they are all producing perfect parts...
Yes, I had to figure out how to make them work, but that part was on me.
3800 pieces later I still have 5 well functioning taps!

Cycle1000 · May 19, 2018

Diamond Back - Destiny Tool
:confused:

Red James · May 19, 2018

Since you are slotting send some 2" loc end mills thru the wire edm and cut off the end to the length you want ... you are not end cutting anyway, right?

Ianagos · May 19, 2018

As far as 2” roughers here is one and I like this company. They will make custom tools if you email them and may chop off half an inch if you ask.

1/2" Aluma-Rough 3 Flute x 2" Cut Carbide Rougher End Mill for Aluminum USA | eBay

isaac338 · May 19, 2018

Check with Data Flute, they have 1/2" 3-flute roughers that may go that long. I've been using one of their 4-flute finisher with 1-1/2" of flute that works well.

fmari --MariTool- · May 21, 2018

Seymour,

Drop me an email. Making a longer flute length rougher is not a problem. We can make is a standard item and stock it. Like carbidebob said, if you need it than I am sure more people can us it as well.

pmack · May 21, 2018

Helical Solutions - High Performance Carbide Cutting Tools

SeymourDumore · May 21, 2018

Guys

The issue I have with the Destiny and the Helical offers ( both fit the dia-LOC reqirements ) is that the serrated flutes are of the "smoother" type and I've had piss poor luck with them.

Frank: Sending PM, Thank You!

CGornet · May 21, 2018

Ianagos said:
As far as 2” roughers here is one and I like this company. They will make custom tools if you email them and may chop off half an inch if you ask.

1/2" Aluma-Rough 3 Flute x 2" Cut Carbide Rougher End Mill for Aluminum USA | eBay

I bought a couple of these to try some time ago and wasn't impressed with them.

Ianagos · May 21, 2018

CGornet said:
I bought a couple of these to try some time ago and wasn't impressed with them.

I’ve never bought their roughers because they just take up another tool slot and don’t offer much of an improvement in mrr for me but I do use their finishers especially the 1/4” and 3/8”. I also use their 1/4” chamfer mills. I think for the price they are pretty darn good.

fmari --MariTool- · May 22, 2018

Quote already sent to Seymour. $49.70 each. Will be in stock in 2 weeks. ZRN coated will also be available for a few bucks more.

Source for 3FL Carbide 1.5"LOC roughers

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Cast Iron

Stainless

Stainless

Cast Iron

Titanium

Cast Iron

Diamond

Aluminum

Stainless

Titanium

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