Stupid question about the Okuma lathe zero display. Where is it? osp 300

Hello.

Recently I had a job where I was using the master tool to provide a stop and zero for the face of the part. After cutting a test part I noticed that the zero its showing is not actually the zero on the part because it fails to show that the master tool has a negative z value. Without moving the tool to that z value where can I see it it in the control. Calibrating an Okuma 2-Axis Lathe with OSP-2L CNC Control - YouTube. This is the procedure I use for setting the master tool and you can see that when he presses the cal key it sets a value on the z. Would the z value for the master not be zero? I failed to notice this before because I always faced off the parts before. Haas has a tool zero window does the okuma?


Thank you.

please check your private message

The "Master tool" should not have a negative value in the Z offset, it should be zero. Even if there is a very small value because the probe says so, it won't show up on the Position page in Auto mode. If you are in Manual mode then Actual position zero will have to correlate with the Tool offset. But that doesn't mean you need to figure it out when facing a part to find Z zero, just face it, and push CAL and ENTER.

What I do when I use a Tool as a stop is, program the tool stop position Z+.05".

R

On mine we used the main spindle z negative turret face as ‘Tool zero’. All tools should be z negative if going towards main but radial live always same number positive z offset. What sucks about a master tool is unless it’s one you don’t use you have to reset everything in the event of a crash. Set the presenter- it works

litlerob1 said:

The "Master tool" should not have a negative value in the Z offset, it should be zero. Even if there is a very small value because the probe says so, it won't show up on the Position page in Auto mode. If you are in Manual mode then Actual position zero will have to correlate with the Tool offset. But that doesn't mean you need to figure it out when facing a part to find Z zero, just face it, and push CAL and ENTER.

What I do when I use a Tool as a stop is, program the tool stop position Z+.05".

R

Click to expand...

At the moment is -.03. And all the parts or off by that. But what was weird to me is that when I tell it to go to z0.0 at the end of the program it does not go to where the actual tool zero is or even show that its off. Ill mess with it today. I think I messed something up. Like usual

WILLEO6709 said:

On mine we used the main spindle z negative turret face as ‘Tool zero’. All tools should be z negative if going towards main but radial live always same number positive z offset. What sucks about a master tool is unless it’s one you don’t use you have to reset everything in the event of a crash. Set the presenter- it works

Click to expand...

What now? How do I do that?

1234567890

plutoniumsalmon said:

At the moment is -.03. And all the parts or off by that. But what was weird to me is that when I tell it to go to z0.0 at the end of the program it does not go to where the actual tool zero is or even show that its off. Ill mess with it today. I think I messed something up. Like usual

Click to expand...

It sounds like you solved your own issue without realizing it yet, woohoo. Your probe needs to be adjusted.

It would be helpful if you said where "at the end of the program" you tool goes, as opposed to "it does not go to where the actual tool zero is". But just randomly guessing, I bet it's about .03 away from where you want it.

Easy way-start all the way over, clear all the Tool offsets and start over, if the probe is not giving up zero for the master tool, there is a user parameter to adjust until it does, then touch off all the tools again, set Z zero on the part and that will fix your issue. Don't program it to Z zero at the end of the program! You need to compensate for the draw tube and Perpendicularity, and just being human.

R

To clarify (I hope) what Willeo said:

Instead of using T1 or whatever, as your "Master Tool" to set up the tool presetter, use the FACE of the turret to teach to the probe.
Then, you never have to worry about using (and by nature, dulling) your "Master Tool" insert.

LOL

I think that is what he meant!

Doug.

I don't mean to be dissuasive. How does that work? If you are indexed to tool 1, and jog the turret down low enough to touch off the face of the turret, it is still going to register in the offsets as tool 1, right? I'm not sure how you even get the turret down that low, unless you re removing the tool block.

Plus, if you are using T1 as the master tool (I hate that term for some reason) and you use it for machining, then you need to index the insert because of wear, and it isn't indexing within .0005" on Z there are bigger problems, if it is indexing correctly and the touch setter doesn't read it there are other problems.

I'm just trying to understand.

R

How about you post some code so we see what you have

litlerob1 said:

It sounds like you solved your own issue without realizing it yet, woohoo. Your probe needs to be adjusted.

It would be helpful if you said where "at the end of the program" you tool goes, as opposed to "it does not go to where the actual tool zero is". But just randomly guessing, I bet it's about .03 away from where you want it.

Easy way-start all the way over, clear all the Tool offsets and start over, if the probe is not giving up zero for the master tool, there is a user parameter to adjust until it does, then touch off all the tools again, set Z zero on the part and that will fix your issue. Don't program it to Z zero at the end of the program! You need to compensate for the draw tube and Perpendicularity, and just being human.

R

Click to expand...

Hello.

Yes it was the probe calibration. I tried re-adjusting it to see if it would fix it and am now down to .01 Error. As far as going to zero I was only doing it in the z axis. I guess I am calling gosiger on monday.

get an empty turret station and a " main turn stick tool". Get a 3 inch gage block, set from your " part zero"( finish turned in place face ) to the turret face is " set to the 3 inch gage block. go into spindle 1 setup- set z as 3.000( gage size ). now go to your turning tool, touch it off using a .100 gage block- this is how you measure the difference. do the math and make the turn tool + the second feeler ( I use a .100 gage) + the offset from where you were = 3 inches. Now you have a mechanically set turning tool to calibrate your sensor with. if you record the turn tool mechanical setting, set it with the sensor,,, if it changes then the sensor is wrong. you can adjust sensor position until it sets to the correct mechanical number. Gosiger should have a procedure they can send you.

plutoniumsalmon said:

Hello.

Yes it was the probe calibration. I tried re-adjusting it to see if it would fix it and am now down to .01 Error. As far as going to zero I was only doing it in the z axis. I guess I am calling gosiger on monday.

Click to expand...

Don't waste your money on calling the tech.

Step by step;
1. Clear you tool offsets.
2. Make sure then finish turning tool has a zero offset for Z axis.
3. Use the finish turning tool to face off the part, where you want Z zero to be.
4. Without moving the tool, go to Zero Set page, CAL-0-ENTER
Once these things have been done (regardless of the touch setter) the machine knows where Z zero is on the part face, and has done the math for you. As far as the finish turn tool is concerned the Z axis is established, there is no way to argue or mess that process up, EVER, AT ALL.
5. Touch all the other tools off on the machined face that you just did with the finish turning tool, Index to T5 touch off CAL-0-ENTER.
Again this isn't something you can mess up, there is no way OSP300 can get this wrong, if you do it just like that.

For the touch setter, pre setter, probe whatever you call it. AFTER you do at least the one tool manually you can use it to determine how far off the tool setter is, that is how Gosiger will do it for you.

(BTW I never use the Probe) because there is the possibility of error, the other way there is no possibility of error except the human part.

R

litlerob1 said:

Don't waste your money on calling the tech.

Step by step;
1. Clear you tool offsets.
2. Make sure then finish turning tool has a zero offset for Z axis.
3. Use the finish turning tool to face off the part, where you want Z zero to be.
4. Without moving the tool, go to Zero Set page, CAL-0-ENTER
Once these things have been done (regardless of the touch setter) the machine knows where Z zero is on the part face, and has done the math for you. As far as the finish turn tool is concerned the Z axis is established, there is no way to argue or mess that process up, EVER, AT ALL.
5. Touch all the other tools off on the machined face that you just did with the finish turning tool, Index to T5 touch off CAL-0-ENTER.
Again this isn't something you can mess up, there is no way OSP300 can get this wrong, if you do it just like that.

For the touch setter, pre setter, probe whatever you call it. AFTER you do at least the one tool manually you can use it to determine how far off the tool setter is, that is how Gosiger will do it for you.

(BTW I never use the Probe) because there is the possibility of error, the other way there is no possibility of error except the human part.

R

Click to expand...

That's how I decided to do it. Just kind of sad to have the setter and not use it.

plutoniumsalmon said:

That's how I decided to do it. Just kind of sad to have the setter and not use it.

Click to expand...

I've never been a fan of touch-setters. Call me old fashioned, stubborn, foolish, or whatever, but I've never liked them.

On most machines, we had to remove them anyway, as we always ended up with chucks/workholding too large, that required us to remove the touch-setters. So once I got into the habbit of setting tools the way littlerob1 mentioned, I never liked the idea of going back to the touch setter.

Plus, doing it manually gives you a solid understanding of how the offsets work. Just trusting the touch-setter without understanding how to setup the offsets manually, leaves you open to mistakes & problems.

To start, do it littlerob1's way. Fiddle with the pre-setter later when you get bored & have nothing better to do.

[ osp300L : steps for cnc determination - this post is just a short brief, and is not covering steps in details ]

this steps can be performed even if the lathe is not properly alligned; some setups may not require high alignment values; as a result, a lathe can be quick recalibrated after a crash, without realigning it; this state can be maintained until there is a real demand to align the lathe ( eq : deep drilling )


origins, offsets and axis values ( with/out corections ) will represent quantifiably content, with physical references inside the machine


[ offset origin calibration ]
*path : parameters \ sensor position

- take a cilinder and grind its faces paralel; the distance between the faces ( thus the length of the cilinder ) must be equal with the distance between the bore of the id holder and the turret face ( considering the holder on the turret )

- remove the dummy from a turret post, and keep the cilinder pushed towards the turret, with its axis paralel to X axis : measure it at the tool senzor : edit tool senzor parameters, until this value ( x offset ) is whatever value you wanna it to be ( factory default is 0 only if a standard holder is used )

- at this moment, X offset represents the double of a real distance, relative to a plane paralel to turret side, at a distance equal with cilinders length

- now take the cilinder and push it on turret side, with its axis paralel to Z axis : measure it at the senzor : edit tool senzor parameters, until z offset is whatever value you wanna it to be ( there is no factory default for it ; i recomand it to be equal with the cilinder height )

- at this moment, Z offset represents a real distance, relative to turret frontal


[ encoders origin calibration ]
*path : parameters \ sys para 2 \ *base zero offset
*path : parameters \ optional parameter ( other function ) \ spindle orientation zero offset

- MDI : reset all origins : XZYCW to be 0

- touch the turret face to spindle frontal : edit Z encoder origin, so Z axis on screen will be 0
- at this moment, Z origin will represent a distance relative to spindle frontal

- engage C axis and rotate the chuck, until you are comfortable with its phisical position ( i recomand the lower jaw to be vertical ) : edit C encoder origin, so C axis on screen will be 0
- at this moment, if a 3 jaw chuck is used, C origin will represent an angle between X axis and a jaw

-if you consider, use same position as a reference for M19 : edit the parameters to achieve that
- at this moment, M19 origin and C0 will reflect same phisical position : thus both axis have syncronized origins

- bring the W as close as possible to the spindle frontal, and measure the distance between main spindle and whatever there is : 2nd chuck or tailstock : edit W encoder origin, so W axis on screen will be equal with the distance that you measured
- at this moment, Zorigin and Worigin will both reflect same distance, relative to spindle frontal; thus both axis have syncronized origins

- calibration for X&Y can be done in 3 ways :
... in respect to turning
... in respect to milling
... somewhere in between
...... i recomand in respect to milling, so to achieve coaxiality between S&M axis : clamp a centro and adjust X&Y until less than 0.03 is achieved : edit the parameters so to calibrate X&Y origin; this is tricky when Y is involved, because there is a phisical difference between G138 and G136

as a result, it will be possible to :
... predict origins and sugest safe offsets, without being near the cnc, with less than 0.1 precision ( faster & safer machine setup, with less downtime near the cnc; very good when crafting uniques )
... faster replicate setups between 2 or more different lathes

also, it is possible to emulate a touch setter on lathes without a touch setter : thus no master tools, just a mill zero gauge on the spindle face (or somewhere behind the chuck, on the left wall) for Z offset, and on the tailstock for X offset ( faster than common tricks )

CAS is simulating the machine inside the virtual enviroment, by referencing current axis value to encoders origins and so on ... in a similar way, those numbers can be taken to CAM, so to syncronize the lathe with the software; ... and this is just the begining

vibe said:

as a result, it will be possible to :

Click to expand...

Still smell dead cat in here.

How many times will you attempt to take the piss out of this forum? Deadly Kitten - Johnny Mnenmonic - Kalim and now Vibe. You were banned, be told and stay at CNC Zone.

Just as a follow up. An associate of mine reported that. He might go by the initials B.A. Ms. Jessica / PracticalMan, Ran an I.P Lookup.

All 4 accounts. Deadly Kitten, Johnny Mnenmonic, Kalim & Vibe. Where all posting from the same I.P Address. 4 cats in 1.

Thank you Ms. Jess

Regards Phil..