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memory: meters to bytes?

spock

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Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Location
Central Ky
My new-to-me Mazak has 76 meters of memory (as listed in the options page). I found an online list that placed that at 30K. Is there a way to determine how many actual lines of code that is? I know I can start uploading longer and longer programs, till I hit the limit, but was looking for a faster way.
 
I've been working with microprocessors since they were invented 35 years ago, and I've never heard of memory measured in "meters".

Could this be a translation problem? Where is Mazak made?

- Leigh
 
The metres of memory is a rough approximation of metres of paper tape.
Since the earliest machines used paper tape for progam storage, they started rating the memory in terms of metres of storage. Nobody knew what a Kilobyte, was. Megabytes were a fantasy. Gigbytes were really science fiction...

Not sure of the number of bytes in a metre of storage/tape. But there is a ratio.
Not related to the number of characters in a line (block) since that will vary.
 
Not sure of the number of bytes in a metre of storage/tape. But there is a ratio.
I believe the standard pitch for both 5-level Baudot and 7-level ASCII is 10 characters per inch, or about 394 bytes per meter. :eek:

If this is correct, Spock's "76 meters of memory" would be about 29,936 bytes. I would guess it actually has 64KBytes installed, a portion of which is available for program storage.

I suppose this falls in the same category as "furlongs per fortnight".

Although that's a valid unit of measurement for speed, I doubt you'll ever see it on a speed limit sign. ;)

- Leigh
 
Number of chars = (meters) / .00254
Meters needed = (number of characters ) X .00254

Leigh,
Strange that if you were working on micros in the 70's that you wouldn't catch this. I still remember that my first bootstrap loader was 22 and half feet long.
Bob
 
Leigh,
Strange that if you were working on micros in the 70's that you wouldn't catch this.
Hi Bob,

Yes, I've worked with Model 17 and Model 19 TTYs. I remember when we upgraded to 28KSRs.

But that was in a datacomm and computer mainframe environment. I didn't make the connection with machine tools.

- Leigh
 
I've been working with microprocessors since they were invented 35 years ago, and I've never heard of memory measured in "meters".

Could this be a translation problem? Where is Mazak made?

- Leigh

Leigh - It's a CNC thing.
Mazak is Japanese.


Spock - Can't you just look at the windows properties of the program file for the file size? That would be accurate, the number if lines would vary according to how many characters were in a line.
 
Leigh - It's a CNC thing.

I don't know if it's a "cnc" thing I only see Japanese controllers refer to tape. Just shows where there heads are...haven't seen a machine come with a tape reader for over 20 years.
 
I don't know if it's a "cnc" thing I only see Japanese controllers refer to tape. Just shows where there heads are...haven't seen a machine come with a tape reader for over 20 years.

How does the saying go? Might is right? Fanuc once controlled 60% of the world market for CNC controllers, if you are that big, I guess you can call it what you want!
No machine comes with a tape reader any more, but there are still a lot of 30 yr old stragglers that are still producing, but many have their tape reader's replaced by the BTR, Behind the Tape Reader, An electronic interface to a PC.
M.
 
Well, went ahead and made a file with 13 characters per line, got about 1700 lines at that size,( if I did everything correctly), when I hit about 30K.
 
No, but I thought that 13 was a little heavier than the average, so I think I will have some idea where the limit is.
 
This is written by Peter Smid

How Large Is Large?
Publish Date - 04/01/2005
Source: Shop Talk Magazine
Column: CNC Equipment for Turning & Machining

By Peter Smid

No, this column is not about filing cabinets or paper folders, but computer files. CNC programs are not all created equal…equal in size, that is. Depending on the simplicity—or complexity—of the program, its size will vary greatly. The ever important question CNC operators have is whether the program file fits into the control memory or not. Let's work with an example of an actual CNC file sample stored in the mandatory plain ASCII text format (no formatting).

When this sample file is stored on the computer, Windows Explorer shows the icon indicating 2KB (2,000 bytes) as the file size. When the mouse moves over it, the detail box shows the file as 1.86 KB (1,860 bytes) in size. Now, I open the same file in Cimco Edit (a popular CNC file editor) and it shows me the file size as 1,809 bytes—

different, but acceptable. Looking at the CNC display at the machine, I am informed that I have so many meters (could be feet) remaining for additional file storage. Meters? Feet? Of what?


Tape Length

If you have worked with computerized machines for more than 10-15 years, you already know the answer. For those who started recently, the answer is “of tape length”. Yes, tape. So many feet or meters of punched tape. Many control systems use this system of storage capacity, even if it is not very helpful anymore, as the punched tape is just about history. When punched tape ruled in the old NC days, the tape was physically measurable (so many feet of tape contained the program) and meters were not commonly used in those days. NC tape was manufactured according to very high ANSI standards, and one of those standards was the distance between rows of holes located across the tape. Each row represents a single character of the program. The distance was arbitrarily determined to be 0.1000 of an inch, and every tape reader was made to match this standard. Once you know this magic number of 0.1, it is not difficult to establish that there will be 120 characters per foot of tape length (12/0.1=120). With the aid of some additional math wizardry, the length in feet can be converted to meters. There are 3.281 feet to one meter or 0.305 meters in one foot. No problem, right?

Well, a small problem comes along when the computer file size is considered. It is not unusual to find differences in file sizes reported by the editor, depending on which editor you use. There are two reasons: one is that there is always some overhead built into the file; and the second reason is that one byte is not always equal to one character. In computer terms, 1,000 characters are really 1,024 bytes. Quality CNC oriented file editors take this fact into effect and are always preferable to generic text editors (in addition to many other attractive CNC oriented features they offer).

Bytes & Storage

In order to sort this maze, we must turn to some simple math and use it for practical conversions of one unit to another. For the sample file size, Windows reported 1,860 bytes. This is a usable figure and available to all Windows users. As the main purpose of this exercise is to find out whether a particular program file size in bytes will fit the available storage of the control system, we only need three calculations:

Available CNC memory capacity in feet: File size / 120
Example: 1860 / 120 = 15.5 ft
Available CNC memory capacity in meters: File size x 0.00245
Example: 1860 x 0.00254 = 4.72 m
Available CNC memory capacity in characters: Nothing to do

In all three cases, as long as the file size is smaller than the available storage capacity, the program should fit in the CNC memory. However, a word of caution is necessary. Due to the different ways different software calculates the file size, use these conversions only as reasonable, not as precise.

Drip Feed Method

This column would not be complete without addressing the issue of what to do if the file does not fit the control memory. In this case, there are several options. Removing block numbers, leading zeros, comments, etc., from the program will make the file size smaller, but it can be a lot of work and still does not guarantee the file will fit. Splitting a long file into several smaller files is also possible, but not recommended, particularly for production work. The best way is to use DNC software that has a feature called "drip feed". Drip-feeding is a method of transferring the CNC program, via a cable, from an external computer to the CNC system in continuous blocks of data. The control buffer (i.e., temporary memory) will store a portion of the program, executes the toolpath, and clears the buffer so another block of data can be loaded and processed. Guess which mode of machine operation you have to choose? Yes, the tape mode (external mode), NOT the memory mode. It is ironical that many controls that cannot even accept a tape input still refer to punched tape terminology. Sorry, I have no answer to that.
 








 
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