Tiny Coolant Speeder

gregormarwick · Nov 29, 2017

CoolSpeed(R)

Anyone familiar with these?

Seems like a nice concept but I'm a bit dubious about the performance/practicality.

Bearing and turbine sets are sold separately and priced such that they are obviously intended to be disposable. Can't see what actually holds the cutter in beyond friction in the bearings or the turbine? At 75k rpm you would think you would have to have some kind of positive tool clamping but I can't see any.

Ziggy2 · Nov 29, 2017

These have been around a long time. I have one on the shelf from the mid 60's that is air powered.

The one I have uses a collet chuck like what the tool post grinders use.

Air power is okay but very expensive on a horsepower consumed to work done ratio.

I'm not thrilled with their idea of using coolant to drive the turbine. Doubt if it would survive for very long.

Biggest problem I see with the air powered version is that the air motor develops maximum torque at full rpm. As rpm drops, torque falls off substantially. What this means is that it stalls easily, hard accurately to control the rpm, and really does not develop much output horsepower considering the input horsepower.

I would have to agree with your initial assessment, looks good but not very practical. Okay for limited use and the rare job that needs it when you can't justify the ownership of a 75K spindle machine.

gregormarwick · Nov 29, 2017

Ziggy2 said:
These have been around a long time.

I'm not sure that we are on the same page. Air turbine spindles have been around a long time certainly, and coolant turbine spindles have been around for several years at least.

But these are not like anything I've seen before - there is no spindle, just the cutting tool mounted directly in two bearings with the turbine.

Ziggy2 · Nov 29, 2017

After a second look, you are correct. The 3D model does not show any way to hold the tool. Does not appear to have any real spindle.

I have not heard of this company before. The tool in question could be vaporware or else there is a lot more to it than they are letting us see.

I really question if they could achieve the runout tolerances they promise without some serious extra details.

I'll let someone else be the first to buy one before I will ever consider buying one.

gregormarwick · Nov 29, 2017

Ziggy2 said:
I have not heard of this company before. The tool in question could be vaporware or else there is a lot more to it than they are letting us see.

WTO are an established company, their main products are live tooling for lathes and milling toolholders. The speeder is in stock at one of our suppliers which is how I found out about it. Not vaporware, but I do think it's very new to market.

DavidScott · Nov 29, 2017

Since the torque applied to the tool will be small, especially with air, the light press fit should hold it. I would be interested in the details of how they keep contaminants out of the bearings. I wonder how many hours it is supposed to last?

gkoenig · Nov 29, 2017

Looks like you just hold it in a standard (well, coolant sealed) collet, which is pretty neat.

What is the pricing like on them?

Captdave · Nov 29, 2017

Wonder what their idea of minimal investment is :nutter:

gregormarwick · Nov 29, 2017

Prices (UK) here:

CoolSpeed(R) Mini Coolant & Air Spindle Speeders

DavidScott said:
I would be interested in the details of how they keep contaminants out of the bearings. I wonder how many hours it is supposed to last?

Bearing and turbine kit is only about £45, so like I said, disposable.

cwtoyota · Nov 29, 2017

Ziggy2 said:
After a second look, you are correct. The 3D model does not show any way to hold the tool. Does not appear to have any real spindle.

...or else there is a lot more to it than they are letting us see.

I think they're running the shank of the end-mill directly in the bearing races.
Using good bearings with axial pre-load, runout would be nearly as good as the shank.

If the bearings are positively retained in the body of the unit with axial pre-load on the turbine, all you have to do is put a set-screw in the turbine to retain the shank of the end-mill.

Another method would be to heat-shrink the turbines on. I think I will try to make some of these just for fun.
Aluminum turbines machined on the 4th, or the indexer, heat-shrunk to a 1/8" shank.
A screw-in cap (with exhaust ports) axially pre-loads both bearings against the turbine and outside races between the body and cap.

Engraving part numbers and serial numbers at the end of an op is a great application for something like this.

Limy Sami · Nov 29, 2017

I suppose the crux of the matter is how clean the coolant is.

fmari --MariTool- · Nov 30, 2017

Does anyone know how to buy these in the US?
I emailed the US location yesterday but no answer yet.

Matt@RFR · Dec 1, 2017

Western Tool just quoted me. "In Stock" means 2 weeks, who knows what "2-4 weeks" means.

Only available in metric, looks like you can be up and running for about $700 plus $100 for the assembly tool. Replacement bearing and turbine sets are $47. The manometer is only needed if you don't have a gauge on your thru coolant.

Looking at the .pdf on the web page Gregor initially posted, it's obvious this is a press-fit assembly.

gregormarwick · Dec 1, 2017

Matt@RFR said:
...it's obvious this is a press-fit assembly.

Yes, but it seems like putting a lot of faith in a pretty small amount of holding force doesn't it?

Consider that the shanks of most carbide tools are h6 - that's a reasonably significant variation in interference for a press fit.

Unless the bores are tight enough to allow for it - which would make sense given the single use/disposable nature of the bearing/turbine assembly. Not intended to ever come off the shank again after they're installed.

cwtoyota · Dec 1, 2017

gregormarwick said:
Yes, but it seems like putting a lot of faith in a pretty small amount of holding force doesn't it?

Consider that the shanks of most carbide tools are h6 - that's a reasonably significant variation in interference for a press fit.

Unless the bores are tight enough to allow for it - which would make sense given the single use/disposable nature of the bearing/turbine assembly. Not intended to ever come off the shank again after they're installed.

In the minimum material condition of the inside races and tool-shank, they probably still have more than enough interference fit to hold small axial forces from the small tools.

At maximum material condition, that inside race probably expands to accept the shank.
I'd imagine they had to consider that when they spec'd the radial clearance of their bearings.

Loose bearings are fine because they can axially pre-load them, or bring them close to pre-load. Kind of like an angular contact thrust bearing.
Heck, maybe they are using tiny angular contact thrust bearings...

Matt@RFR · Dec 1, 2017

Picture of the setup is too big to attach.

thesidetalker · Dec 1, 2017

So did you buy one yet Matt?

mjk · Dec 1, 2017

Any chance the fit between the bearing races is minimal/slide and the "real" holding power is in the press into the turbine body itself?

cwtoyota · Dec 1, 2017

mjk said:
Any chance the fit between the bearing races is minimal/slide and the "real" holding power is in the press into the turbine body itself?

Entirely possible. If the turbine is metal, it makes the most sense to do it that way in my opinion.

Matt@RFR · Dec 1, 2017

thesidetalker said:
So did you buy one yet Matt?

Funny timing, we just today got a job for a part we usually make 3-5 of at a time, this order is for 50 and it requires a .007" endmill slotting .032" deep. In this case we will go from 2.5 IPM to 12, and probably a deeper DOC because of the better SFM. So yep, we'll be buying a couple of these to try out. The only thing that sucks is I'll have to have more custom .007" endmills made on a 3mm shank.

I've been eyeing the Typhoon spindle from Taegutec. Max is 40,000 RPM, they are very long units and at around $7,000, they are a tad spendy. I'm sure they last a lot longer than these WTO units, but it's going to take a whole lot of $47 replacement cartridges to worry about price vs. longevity.

Tiny Coolant Speeder

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Stainless

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Titanium

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Cast Iron

Diamond

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Cast Iron

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Stainless

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