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tool presetter

Seekins

Stainless
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Location
Lewiston ID
How many of you run a tool presetter? I either need to get one or buy touch off probes for my other machines. After having a probe on the haas i have to figure out something for the mori's. Only problem, if i do go with a presetter it needs to work with HSK and Cat40. Otherwise i will just get a touch probe for the new horizontal and do without on the dura for a while..
 
We use our presetter for our 40 and 50 taper machines. Its a basic Zoller but works really well. They make adapters for 40 and HSK that go inside the master which is 50 and just change the setting and the Z adjusts automatic. The only time we use the HSK adapter is for setting boring bar diameters as that machine has a touch probe for tool length.
 
We use several Parlec machines and likewise, there are adapters (or cartridges depending on the model) to change between just about any taper type out there. Check them out.... Parlec Presetters

You can go simple with a table top type to a full blown CNC machine with macros and canned cycles (cool stuff), thread routines, tool library, online support and upgrades, .... even with a built in shrinker. They also have drawbars on some models which makes things really close.
 
I use and older Parlec TMM, got it cheap at an auction several years ago. It's kind of like an garage door opener, once you have one, you wonder how you lived without it.:) I believe all of them have adapters for what ever holder's you may have. They are fast and accurate for setting up your offsets and determining your runouts. The newer ones have more bells and whistles, of course depending on your pocket book, some nifty options as well. The bottom line is the bottom line. You just need to figure out it's payback timeline.
 
Thanks, That parlec with shrink fit and the tool library would be great. I will have to get some prices on it monday. I just figured that a tool station like that would be cheaper and more useful in the longrun than a new Renishaw touch probe every time i get another machine.

how much trouble is it to use shrink fit tool holders and are they worth it over a good ER holder? I do need some holders with small diameter noses.
 
Speaking of.....
Anyone got a ballpark price for one? I will have to purchase one for one of my projects soon and was wondering if I budgeted a realistic $ figure.
 
I rolled my own Rube Goldberg set-up.
102_5184.jpg


This is not the ultra precise unit that you can buy but it does what I need.

Now I can't imagine doing it the old way. I also can see the benifits of the larger fancier machines. At some point I will be going down that road too.

But for now this is a huge step forward from touching off in the machine.
 
I ... uh .... "rolled my own" many yrs ago as well. :smoking:

;)

Shown with an NMTB30 (QS30) holder in it.

All's you gotta doo is take a flat plate and stuff it in the 4 jaw and set your compound to a close prox on the taper and bore your hole as close as you can to "guageline" spec and drive on.

Even if your gaugeline is a full inch off - really doesn't matter as long as every tool in the shop goes through that setter - everybody will be on the same page. This is not an accuracy issue - but rather a repeatability issue here.

You could simply bore two holes in opp ends of the plate (or more?) and be able to run both 40 and HSK. (Add 50 as well?)

A 12" Height Guage that lives there is all that's necessary for 40 taper, but on occassion you may need to grab a 2/4/6 block for a wee bit'a help. ;)


ToolZGuage.jpg





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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
My Kwik Change 200 presetter clearly demonstrates a little "too much time on my hands" as all the pieces (made from scrap) have been ground flat. I figured the height gage would set better on a flat surface

presetter007.jpg
 
I use the same thing as ARB and Ox.
A digital interface to the machine is nice as it allows my "surface plate" to automatically punch the numbers into my controllers.
Disadvantage from a real toolpresetter is it does lengths only.
Bob
 
...how much trouble is it to use shrink fit tool holders and are they worth it over a good ER holder? I do need some holders with small diameter noses.

I suppose it depends on what type of shrink unit you get. I have a low dollar (~$4500) Techniks unit that takes a bit longer to change tools, but doesn't have a heinous power requirements. By comparison, the big power units need to run off of 480V, so you may have to buy a transformer. I think a heat shrink system is completely worth the investment. FYI, heat shrink holders do require a little more TLC than other holders and getting burned is just a matter of time. ;)

Roughing and finishing, heat shrink holders outperform collet chucks, hydraulic toolholders, or milling chucks under most circumstances, but not every time. (considering 6" GL holders, a fat ER32 will typically outperform a skinny heat shrink holder at the same length, but at the sacrifice of nose clearance) About 3/4 of my heat shrink holders are from Techniks and the rest are from Haimer. I don't notice any performance difference between the brands, but the tapers on the Haimers are certainly holding up better. (visually)
 
Nice Winchester riser blocks Ox.:)

I just got done unloading a few of those with my pappy.:D

Dove and quail shot boxes are precision manufactured doughnut you know.

I sold my Trimos presetter when I got the Renishaw TSR27 on the mill. I regret it. I made tool holder block for VDI 30 lathe tools so I could preset with a Height gauge on an inspection plate. But I still have to tweak the tool offsets once I measure a cut piece. The Trimos read out 4.5 decimal places, and I've seen them on Ebay for about $1.5K-$3K.
 
My risers are a "Goot enough for who it's for" deally....

I werk in a production environment.



Joe?

Now that boy must werk in the toolroom! :o

There's more than just ground surfaces going on there! :eek:



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
ARB,
If you dont mind me asking, sisnce I never saw a presseter used before, and I think you also have a Sharp with OI-mc: Are you setting zero on the top of that block in the photo (on your height gage)? Lets say your measurment is 5 inches. Do you use that number as your length offset in the control table?
This setup looks handy, I am using very small (.02 range) endmills more and more, touching them off is a bit of a pain....
 
ARB,
If you dont mind me asking, sisnce I never saw a presseter used before, and I think you also have a Sharp with OI-mc: Are you setting zero on the top of that block in the photo (on your height gage)? Lets say your measurment is 5 inches. Do you use that number as your length offset in the control table?
This setup looks handy, I am using very small (.02 range) endmills more and more, touching them off is a bit of a pain....

The top of my socket represents the end of my spindle.

I zero the HG on the end of the socket then measure the length of the tool from there. I put this in the length offset.

In the machine I bring a calibrated tool (5.321" for example) down to my part and type Z 5.321 and hit the measure button for your work offset.
 
For the manual measurement guys - These Matsuura setting blocks are handy. You can use it with a height gage to measure the length in one pocket and the radius in the other pocket. This one is at HGR.
10-582-023.jpg


There are also plenty of the Universal brand length measurement tools around, that use either a micrometer thimble or a dial indicator for measurement. Like this -
160006736_o.jpg
 
Can’t go wrong with a Trimos and ours has been in use for at least a dozen years. Before that I would load the tools in the magazine and run a macro that you would handle up to a known datum until the touch sensor came on and hit cycle start to load the value in the registry and get the next one ready to measure. That method was actually faster for length measurement but diameter setting is a different story. I have always understood the gage line or “zero tool length” to be at the point the taper reaches 2.750” diameter for # 50 and 1.750” for # 40. This is where our master gauge defines them from.

http://www.fvfowler.com/minipre.html
 
it would be real neat if it spit out a program for your machine, you load the tools and run the "offset" program and your done :) maybe im dreaming.....If you think about it, most touch probes (length and diam) seem to be from 7k and up. One tool station like this would be cheaper in the long run if you had a few machines. No need to set up each one with a probe..
 








 
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