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Tormach Mill or not

Marcibb

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
Alabama
Hello, I am thinking of buying a CNC Mill for mostly hobby use and maybe a few repair parts for friends and family.

I am looking at the Tormach Mill with the 8 inch rotary table as the 4th axis kit and Sprutcam for software. I am hoping someone with first hand experience with this Mill could advise me or tell me of there experience with it.

Marci
 
Tormac or not

In your opinion is it worth the money?

What do you see as the Tormach mill's pluses and minuses?

I see that Tormach has a large amount of tooling can one use off the shelf tooling or is one required to use Tormach stuff?

Any thing else you can tell me about the machine like is the if Deluxe Machine Stand worth the extra money?

What software package did you get/use with the machine?
 
In your opinion is it worth the money?

I paid $14k for everything including shipping to my house and made $15K with one job in 3 weeks....on average I make about $75/hour cycle time

What do you see as the Tormach mill's pluses and minuses?

One of the big plus with Tormach is if you need to replace part everything is in stock and not a lot of money...

Very good travel in Z so you can set up a part and fixture and still have room for a tool

on the minuses side is there is no real service department so your on your own for repairs...I should state that I have about 750 hours on my machine and have not needed any real repairs yet....

Any thing else you can tell me about the machine like is the if Deluxe Machine Stand worth the extra money?

The cost of the stand is worth the price...you can build one but they don't always come out square
 
i also have a tormach with the 8" 4th axis. i am very happy with it. i am new to cnc and teaching myself. it has proven a good machine to learn on. now that i am getting a bit better at programming, faster rapids would be nice. a bit more travel in the x and possibly the y would also be nice. i have a feeling if i bought a machine with more travel, the first project i needed to do would be just bigger than it's work envelope too. tormach's customer service has been great. i think for the size and price, it's a great value. i would buy one again if i needed a machine in that size.

i am fully capable of building my own stand but i don't think i could do it any cheaper than the deluxe stand tormach sells. i am sure i could build one more rigid but the tormach stand seems to work just fine. it is a toss up between building a stand exactly the way you want it, or buying one and putting your machine to use the day it is delivered.
 
Another big plus for the Tormach in a home shop set-up is it's size and it is also single phase...You could set up one in a townhouse...people have them in basements (like mine) the machine is 1100lbs but it can be moved thru a stander 32"doorway
 
Tormach or Not

How about the Duality Lathe option?

What are the advantages or disadvantages over the rotating table?
 
Just to give you an idea of work size with the Tormach...Attached photo is of a prototype I did last year for a company in S.Boston Artisent...They bought a Tormach for the first production run
http://www.ops-core.com/FAST_Bump_Helmet_P8C6.cfm
The 4th axis is on a 35* angle plate for 5th axis position...the set-up was cutting the ellipsical cut-out vents in top of helmet
 

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I did speak to one person who has the lathe his statement was kind of like this...It is a cheap chinese manual benchtop (that you can buy on-line) and Tormach added steppers and wired to the machine controller...he did state that it was what he expected for the price
 
$14K buys you a whole lot more machine in the used market these days.
At auction recently this summer I saw 3 fadals (8000-10000 pound machines with tool changers, etc) go for an average of $1500 15--HUNDRED not Thousand dollars.
It's a buyers market out there.....

Unless you really need the small size foot print and the cost is acceptable, then I guess it's your decision.

Maybe time to kick the car out of the garage, & move in a 'real' Vertical Machining Center??

dk
 
DK your right about the used market...15K can buy a whole lot more machine right know...I'd like to get a used TM-2 for my basement...not having a tool changer is a pain...
 
I have Sprutcam Expert and while it is a very capable program, it has a pretty serious learning curve to use a lot of the features. The documentation is ok but a little cryptic and reads like Unix man pages, and there is not a lot of hand holding or training available here in the states. That being said, it is the most capable program for the money and can do things that other CAM packages that cost 10X more still do not do as well. The CAM and simulation interfaces are good, the CAD side is very dated, and the post editor is very powerful but you really need to know some programming to be very productive with it. If you experienced with other CAM packages, you can get up to speed with it pretty quickly. If you are new to cnc, take a look at something like Visual Mill. It does not have all of the features as Sprut and costs more, it is a well designed program that is a lot faster to get up to speed with.
 
This summer I saw several VF-3s go for about $6500. There is a Fanuc Drill Mate locally I have my eyes on for the same asking price. I would love to have that in my garage. And with those machines you get a real tool changer and no R8. I tried the tormach tool change system and its a joke. Yes, it has repeatability, but the retention is terrible. I dont know why they dont just put a 30 taper spindle on that thing and be done with it. The TTS tool holders cost as much as 30 taper tool holders.
 
I can't believe this but I'm gonna jump to the other side of the fence and say if you are just learning at the hobby level these seem like a decent starting point. I can't think of an easier way to get started.

If you know your way around machine tools then the used market will get you a whole lot more bang for your buck.

One has to realize the tradeoffs that must be made in such a low cost machine design. Interesting to read the design notes at their website.
A 5 million a year shop is not gonna consider one but if you are just starting out they are easy to get up and running, are small and don't need 3-phase. If you grow there will probably always be light cut stuff you can throw on it.

Is there an easier and cheaper way to get started? This is a lot smaller budget than MasterCam on a full sized machining center. Yea, the used market is cheaper, but who wants their first lesson in CNC to be about how to reload the parameters into a Faniuc OM?

I'm trying really hard to put myself in the mindset of a first time startup. With a few years under my belt everything in me screams "this is not a real mill". Thinking back I'm wondering if mistakes made on one of these would not have been a lot cheaper than what I did to my poor old Milwaukematic. :D
Bob
 
To Tormac or not

Wow thanks again for all the good information.

A few people have told the same thing about Sprutcam Mickey_D, I have a little bit of experience with computers a few years back I took some programing courses at a local college. I am currently teaching my self Solid Works.

I am a retired army nurse that has always been fascinated with machining and making things out of metal. I remember watching my father, mother and grand father making all these marvelous things out of a block of iron. I am retired now, the kids are on there own, well for the most part, so to get out of the house I took a few machine shop courses at a local vocational college, I purchased a Birmingham lathe from Harbor Freight (got it for cheap and got my money worth) so this time I am going to be a bit less impulsive and get as much information as possible before I buy anything.

I am not really looking at starting a career as machinist and the floor space in my shop is very limited.

Thy teach Master Cam at the Vocational College where I took basic turning and basic milling courses, does any one know if Master Cam works well with the Tormach Mill?

I agree with dkmc and macona, there seems to be a lot of greats deals out there in the used market, but I do not have the experience required to know if I am looking at a peace of junk or a sweet deal so that is why I am leaning toward something new.

The tool changing thing is an other point that has been brought up seams like one is pretty much stuck buying Tormach tooling (TTS) for this machine or use the R8 tools holders, it would be nice if one would have more than one source for tooling.

An other point is that Tormack is an American company I am not so sure where the machines are actually assembled and parts produced but that is a plus for me.

That having been said if anyone knows where I can pickup a Hass Mini Mill 2 with tool changer, 4th and 5ft axis options for around $15,000 please let me know I will be eternally grateful.

Please fell free to add to this discussion I plan to purchases something either in December or January any information will be helpful.
 
....
Thy teach Master Cam at the Vocational College where I took basic turning and basic milling courses, does any one know if Master Cam works well with the Tormach Mill?

An other point is that Tormack is an American company I am not so sure where the machines are actually assembled and parts produced but that is a plus for me.

That having been said if anyone knows where I can pickup a Hass Mini Mill 2 with tool changer, 4th and 5ft axis options for around $15,000 please let me know I will be eternally grateful.
.

See if you can buy a student version of Mastercam...

Tormach has a factory in China that makes the machines...

I'd be surpized if you found a TM2 with 4/5 axis for 15K...20-25K will get you one....
 
personally i bought one of these Hobby style mills when i started my business. suffice to say, soon after i bought a fadal 3016. guess which one doesn't get any more use. my hobby mill is sitting in the corner collecting dust. i've been looking for little things to put on it but really the fadal is that much more machine. i would really, really look hard at a used professional machine. for one the support is by far superior and at a professional level. you get to use standard tooling. you can actually use end mills and tools like your supposed to. i've seen the tormach holders pull out. its no pretty. i would skip the tormach tooling package and use the R8 if your really going to get one. for your small parts, i would look at a robodrill, a haas mini mill, a fadal vmc15, etc. they all can be had for around the tormach price and your milles ahead of the game.
 








 
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