Transition to titanium?

PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

Hi guys.
I'm not a machinist. I am an entrepreneur.

I am dealing with some Philipinnes CNC shops and we are developing a plan to fabricate some titanium parts.

Problem is, the Philipinnes is a poor country. None of the machine shops there have ever worked on titanium. In fact you can't find any titanium supliers anywhere in the Philipinnes. But that angle is being worked.

However, my understanding is that essentially the same tooling and consumables used for stainless is used for titanium. But the techniques are completely different than when working with the usual steel alloys.

So how much of a jump is it to learn to work on titanium? How much of a learning curve? Am I asking too much for a third world country CNC shop to learn to carve up titanium?

SeymourDumore · Apr 29, 2017

PepeLapiu said:
I am an entrepreneur.

I am dealing with some Philipinnes CNC shops and we are developing a plan ...

Well, here is the plan.

Pay competent folks who are in the "know" develop the product for you, and then use your entrepreneurship to take over and figure out how it can be made overseas
and still end up with the same product.
That same process is well established and has been done that way for at least 2 decades by just about everyone that counts.
You - at this point - do not.

( for others, there is a topic started by this schmuck in the General forum, and there were helpful replies to help him out ... )

SCSA · Apr 29, 2017

The thing that is really hard to swallow is that everyone automatically assumes things will be cheaper overseas. We are based in Australia and are taking work from Taiwan, go figure we can be competitive on price, destroy them on quality and be very profitable. Who would have thought it was possible. Well that's entrepreneurship done right.
My two cents.

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PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

I'm not getting it done in the Philipinnes because it's cheap or because I think it would cost less. That round be a bonus but that is not my primary reason.

Bureaucracy and regulations make it very difficult for me to make it happen here in my country. So I am getting it done in Philipinnes because they are more receptive to new businesses.

So how much work is it to tool up and learn to work on titanium?

PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

SeymourDumore said:
Well, here is the plan.

Pay competent folks who are in the "know" develop the product for you, and then use your entrepreneurship to take over and figure out how it can be made overseas
and still end up with the same product.
That same process is well established and has been done that way for at least 2 decades by just about everyone that counts.
You - at this point - do not.

( for others, there is a topic started by this schmuck in the General forum, and there were helpful replies to help him out ... )

So you don't want to answer the simple question I asked in the opening post. You just want to tell me how to conduct my business without making any effort in answering the question and that you call me a smuck.

Thanx for ruining my thread from.the get-go

PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

SCSA said:
The thing that is really hard to swallow is that everyone automatically assumes things will be cheaper overseas.

That is not what I assume and that is not why I set up business in Philipinnes. I do it because I have a summer home there and sornd half the year in Philipinnes.

So how much work is it to learn to work with titanium?

SCSA · Apr 29, 2017

Anyone who CNC machines anything can take care of it. So much information from tooling suppliers. Top quality tooling and coolant essential, otherwise forget it. Needless to say the machine needs to be tight and good quality.

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PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

SCSA said:
Anyone who CNC machines anything can take care of it. So much information from tooling suppliers. Top quality tooling and coolant essential, otherwise forget it. Needless to say the machine needs to be tight and good quality.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Though Philipinnes CNC might not qualify as 'tight and good quality'.

SeymourDumore · Apr 29, 2017

PepeLapiu said:
So you don't want to answer the simple question I asked in the opening post. .

I gave you an answer some 7 or so days ago in the general forum ( while assuming you were legit )

PepeLapiu said:
.. and that you call me a smuck.

Thanx for ruining my thread from.the get-go

You are a schmuck, and it was not I who've ruined it from the get-go. ( I will let you figure that one out on your own )

PepeLapiu · Apr 29, 2017

SCSA said:
Anyone who CNC machines anything can take care of it. So much information from tooling suppliers. Top quality tooling and coolant essential, otherwise forget it. Needless to say the machine needs to be tight and good quality.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

So if CNC machining titanium can be done just the same as steel, than why is it more expensive to do? Tooling wears out faster? More expensive coolant?

SCSA · Apr 29, 2017

Not same as steel.... More like stainless steel... Which can be a nightmare, titanium is a bit more forgiving. Quality tools, maintaining the coolant. Fixturing has to be rock solid, many factors. Preparation is key. If you can't hold it you can't machine it. Sometimes you need to go an extra operation because component doesn't have enough support to machine, although if same part is made out of aluminium you can easily cut it in two operations and maintain quality and hold tolerance. Is not only a material problem, also greatly depends on the part design.

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machtool · Apr 29, 2017

PepeLapiu said:
Bureaucracy and regulations make it very difficult for me to make it happen here in my country. So I am getting it done in Philipinnes (SP) because they are more receptive to new businesses.

I'm calling bullshit on that. Your just too lazy to play by the rules, that every one else has to work with in. I'm not buying that bullshit about not getting it done cheaper also. How could it not be cheaper? By your own admission, those blokes cant even buy Titanium, let alone work with it.

Secondly, its hard to take anyone called "PepeLapiu" seriously.

Thirdly, its spelt "Philippinnes"

Personally, I think your just a rude prick, by coming here, asking for hard earned knowledge, so you can pass it off to your low ball manufacturer. Surely that's cutting our Canuck brother's throats eh?

(On Edit). One of your recent threads was about gun silencers. What's the chance these are the Bureaucracy and Regulations you are trying to get around?

I wouldn't piss in your ear, if your brain was on fire. I'd urge other members to do the same.

Regards Phil.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/solvent-traps-334577/

(2nd Edit)There is no doubt this clown is intending to produce some thing in the Philippines, that screws on to the end of a barrel. This and his profile mentions guns as an interest.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/custom-thread-size-334493/

Given his self admitted lack of machinist / engineering skills. It would be reckless to assist him. High probability of being an illegal product.

SeymourDumore · Apr 29, 2017

machtool said:
those blokes cant even buy Titanium, let alone work with it.

Did I just fixed it for ya Phil?

SCSA · Apr 29, 2017

machtool said:
I'm calling bullshit on that. Your just too lazy to play by the rules, that every one else has to work with in. I'm not buying that bullshit about not getting it done cheaper also. How could it not be cheaper? By your own admission, those blokes cant even buy Titanium, let alone work with it.

Secondly, its hard to take anyone called "PepeLapiu" seriously.

Thirdly, its spelt "Philippinnes"

Personally, I think your just a rude prick, by coming here, asking for hard earned knowledge, so you can pass it off to your low ball manufacturer. Surely that's cutting our Canuck brother's throats eh?

(On Edit). One of your recent threads was about gun silencers. What's the chance these are the Bureaucracy and Regulations you are trying to get around?

I wouldn't piss in your ear, if your brain was on fire. I'd urge other members to do the same.

Regards Phil.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/solvent-traps-334577/

Ohhhh.... So there is more to this story...
Seriously, if you can't work within the system you are in then good luck in any other system.
Is not hard to get things do e in US, Canada and Australia at the right price. Quality will be there, support will be there, repeatability will be there.
Also you have the cultural work ethic that will not allow you to get things how you like them. What I mean is in many poor countries people work with the minimum to get max return, including exploiting people. The reality is that in the lo g run it will cost you more, because once you are established and up and running and need volume you are in deep shit, as they will never invest in a Makino MMC multi machine setup to do your work. Or multiple multitasking machines with bar feeders. So naturally the quality goes down and all your hard work up shit creek. I see it all the time, bottom line is 'More now, less later. Less now, more later' how ever you cut it.
Invest in growth and quality, if you are chasing price point only you will fizzle out of existence like everyone else.
Quality machinery that is state of the art, with automation and quite operators win alm the time.
The more I see of this picture the more I tend to agree with others here.

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machtool · Apr 29, 2017

SCSA said:
Ohhhh.... So there is more to this story...

We may have been typing at the same time.

Tomorrow morning over toast and coffee, have a read of this. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/custom-thread-size-334493/
Pay particular attention around post 51 & 52

PepeLapiu said:
The BATFE has no jurisdiction on me.

My design is as much a political statement as it is a business venture.

Let me translate. Another Prepper / Anarchist that doesn't think rules / laws applies to them.

The rules and regs / Philippines, any way you look at it, its an illegal silencer. Which this prick wants to circumvent. Don't Implicate yourself.

I'd implore you to keep what you know about Ti machining to your self, or to share it with the brothers that need it.

This prick is not only ignorant, but dangerous as well. Doesn't have a fucking clue about screw threads, but wants to screw something onto the end of a barrel. Then sub it out to the lowest bidder in third world manufacturing, because he has a holiday home there. :nutter:

Regards Phil

twr · Apr 29, 2017

Phil well said!!! Why the fuck if you have a summer home in the Philippines don't you move their full time and get your crap made and sold there. Get FUCK out of Canada we have enough people like you here.

machtool · Apr 29, 2017

twr said:
Phil well said!!! Why the fuck if you have a summer home in the Philippines don't you move their full time and get your crap made and sold there. Get FUCK out of Canada we have enough people like you here.

I like the way you think. We share the same Commonwealth. If it's not bad enough to be cutting your blokes throat's by out sourcing it overseas. Let alone* hone up on Ti machining here. Given he has never done it, & Manila has never seen it.
I'd predict this bloke pulled a Filipino girl from the heard. Hence the 6 months on / 6 months off.

All that's insignificant, given that he doesn't think he should be compliant with BATFE .Even that's fucked up. Surely he should be compiling with R.C.M.P Canadian rules?

twr · Apr 29, 2017

Phil believe me when i say if its made and sold here without the correct testing and papers to go with it their will be fines or jail to the seller. RCMP and Cops don't fuck around with gun stuff here in Canada! Hell you need papers in Ontario to take your handgun to a rifle range also you are to drive a mapped out route, not drive all over town with it. A few of my buds have some big handgun collections and this is what I have been told.

nofxz · Apr 29, 2017

Lol, best of luck with this dreamscape of bullshit.
International arms traffic through the mail. Let me know how that works out for you.

Chip Chester · Apr 29, 2017

Instead of asking folks for information you need to make money for you without paying them, you need to invest in a production consultant to proof out your methods, and then export them to your target production environment. If your production methods or product can't stand the light of day with respect to regulation, methods, legality, or just morality, then it looks like you're on your own. Trial and error. As in, if you make any more errors, you'll likely go to trial.

Chip

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