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Tree 325 with Delta 20 control issues

NITROCHUCK

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Looking at a Tree Journeyman 325 with a Dynapath Delta 20 control.....
Machine has been inside but offline (unwired, unpowered) for a couple of years.
Owner had machine wired in and powered up yesterday for me to demo.
He called and said the Z axis was not jogging.... I was not there in person (yet)so I dont know if any warning codes displayed or led were lit. Owner by his own admission is not familiar with the machine.
Going to see in person Thursday.... I know there is atleast one battery in the controller.... could a dead battery on a board cause the dead Z ??
Are there multiple batteries on multiple boards ??
Machine was fully functional when taken out of service 2 years ago.....
What should i be looking for ??? Low voltages at power supply ??
Owner has complete original documentation with diagrams and voltage specs.
Hoping its something easy but also realize these older machines can be fussy and tempermental.
Dont want to end up with 4600lbs of useless weight....no handwheels so no jog....no chips
 
Depending on connectors and similarity of motors, you could do some substitution with Y to determine if it's board, motor, or wiring/switches or overall controller. In addition to the owner's documentation, Dynapath is still in business and at the obvious website.

Chip
 
On Tree J325, the Z is a quill type axis. I'd not surprised if the quill was frozen in the bore. Coolant residue dried up would be enough but corrosion is always a possibility.
 
I believe that there's only one battery in the control, it's AA sized (but not 1.5 volts IIRC) in a holder that you can see as soon as you take the cover off. If it was dead, you'd have other issues, but it should not keep the Z from working if the X and Y do.
Like Chip said, Dynapath answers the phone and has always been helpful to me, I recommend having the model and serial numbers when you call, if you can call from right at the machine that's the best way.
 
I guess it moves manually

On Tree J325, the Z is a quill type axis. I'd not surprised if the quill was frozen in the bore. Coolant residue dried up would be enough but corrosion is always a possibility.

I havent seen machine in person yet...tomorrow 5pm... owner says z moves manually... I assuming hes turning drive under top cover with a wrench as machine has no handwheels....
From what Ive seen on youtube there seems to be access from the top to the servo motor and beltdrive.
I've done a little research with a online dynapath manual and there is a z jog function lock that may be enabled ... owner didnt have a lot of personal experience with the delta 20 control... so it may be that simple but then again.... motors, driver boards, power supplies all see to be available from various sources but could make total cost of a running machine less than attractive....
 
You should be able to put a large flat screw driver on the end the servo and turn it by hand. It's been a while, but I know X and Y are like that. I think Z is too. Seems like there is an access hole right behind the quill under the Z servo.

If the control powers up and the machine is tight, I don't think you are taking much of a risk. Those are dirt simple machines and there are a lot of part on ebay. They made a ton of them.
 
You should be able to put a large flat screw driver on the end the servo and turn it by hand. It's been a while, but I know X and Y are like that. I think Z is too. Seems like there is an access hole right behind the quill under the Z servo.

If the control powers up and the machine is tight, I don't think you are taking much of a risk. Those are dirt simple machines and there are a lot of part on ebay. They made a ton of them.

I have a 310 with a delta 20. It has a slot in end of servo shaft so you can turn it. the control must be E -stopped to be able to rotate servo. Mine rotates easily with a screwdriver but with control power on it is locked
 
Got machine home and wired... x and y jog no problem. ...z still nothing...if i toggle z quickly cycle start lights while switch is engaged...then goes out when released. ..if i hold z jog light comes on then machine trips contactor after a few seconds....going to ohm motor and see if it has any shorted spots.... Z driver board doesn't have any lit led warning lights....power to board...but doesn't seem to have any power to L3 transformer. ...any ideas? ?? Anyone bought a refurbished driver board from parts and smarts ?? Wondering on the cost...Thanks
 
i have purchased new driver from parts and smarts, good people. around $750 i think.
to me sounds like that may be the problem.
swap out one of the other boards see if problem goes away
those boards have to be tuned occasionally info available at dynapath web site
 
Been on the phone with Al no less than 5 times in the last 2 days...swapped z with y.... z board drove y axis... y board wouldn't move z .... checked z limit switch tonight .... tested ok...its either a motor issue or a wiring to the motor....motor and z screw turn with little effort. ...even with motor supposedly under power.... Al is awesome. ...very very helpful.
 
Just a word of caution- its ok to try a suspect board on a known good motor, but it is risky to put a good board on an unknown motor as you may fry the good board. 1st thing I would check is pull the brushes on the z motor- both armature and tach if it has one and blow out the brush dust and check the brush length. then check continuity from the drive to the motor.
 
My next step Dan was going to be pull motor and ohm check windings. Previous owner states z worked perect when machine was parked 3 years ago. When they wired it up to demo for me Z moved briefly and quit. I assume what ive read is correct and this is a 100v dc permanent magnet brush motor... it's common in automotive starter motors for a starter that's been unused for sometime to work great the first time back in service but stick a brush in it's holder and then have an open circuit. .... hoping drive is good and motor just needs a cleaning.
 
Found a replacement motor on ebay and purchased that...still going to pull z motor tomorrow and ohm check...maybe pull motor brushes and check commutator. ..a little intimidated by the tach and encoder...anyone had one apart ???
 
Ok guys...i pulled Z motor today....pulled brushs (very little wear )....cleaned commutator. ...reassembled. ...didn't touch tach or encoder. ...
Put motor back in machine no belt...try to jog...nope.... motor isnt locked when drive is powered and if you spin it by hand it trips out contactor and kills power to drives....
I removed motor again and bench tested with a 12v dc variable output supply....ran both directions. ...up and down...seemed ok....
Reinstalled. ..still no jog...no hold on motor....BUT..... if i have controller set to jog....drives reset..... and use handwheel to jog Z at the .010 or .001 rate the number will toggle up and down perfectly with NO MOVEMENT OF THE MOTOR SHAFT AT ALL ????
But if i rotate motor shaft even a little by hand drive trips out.....
Or if i try to jog Z using toggle at even a slow rate the numbers change briefly with no shaft movement and then drive trips.....
Im assuming the encoder sends data to the controller reporting position. So if Z position is changing without any actual mechanical movement of any kind is encoder bad ??? Does the encoder have anything to do with applying power to motor windings ?? Where does the tach come in ??
I swapped the Z driver card to the Y axis and it jogged the Y fine....
Im baffled how display is reporting movement when there is none....and i can toggle Z back and forth @ .010 rate seemingly endlessly with no movement. ..no tripping....no fault messages...nothing. ...
 
I'll just give you a little sidelight on my recent (this year) purchase of a J325 with Delta 20.

The machine wouldn't jog on any axis when I first saw it, and behaved as you describe. I believe the display is showing the commanded travel, and when there is no signal coming back from the encoder, the servo(s) trip. There is very likely some motion envelope parameter set up (this is the speculation section of the discussion...) such that exceeding the envelope value with commanded motion and not having encoder signal returned leads to servo trip. I have not done a lot with my machine yet, but I saw your behavior trying to jog the X-axis leading to servo trip after a bit more than 0.500" increment on the display.

My all-axis issue was a bad power supply capacitor. It was unable to hold the voltage up to the required value.
 
Hi Spec...my x and y act flawlessly...i can jog at the fastest rate...back and forth with no issues....
My z hasnt done a thing yet.... i did swap the y top connector (15 pin) to the z card and it jogged the y axis....
I was tempted to put the z connector on the y card but was afraid the z motor may be shorted and would damage a good card....
Do all the cards get power from a common sypply circuit or do each have there own isolated power source ??
I did not swap all 3 connections on the two cards...just the 15 pin...so if the z card power source was at fault it wouldnt have moved y but it did....
Right now I'm thinking there maybe a bad wire somewhere between z card and motor.... i dont want to do much part swapping detective work...as far as i can tell all 3 cards currently "work"....but im not sure how to test z card for power in and power out...and i have all paper documentation on this machine...driver schematics...machine schematics. ..and im still baffled at what voltages appear where....
 
OK Guys....got this thing on the ropes..... I swapped the Y card to the Z and it worked fine.... so I got a good card from Ebay...... installed the card.... no jog on Z or holding power....turn motor by hand with drive engaged.... Set card to factory pot setting per servo dynamics manual.... still nothing..... started increasing (CW) CL pot..... got motor to start a slow Z- jog ..... backed it off until jog stopped....
Then with a scope hooked to Z axis and Y axis it tried moving pots to make Z waveform look like Y ...... right now my Z is holding...cant move it much by hand with drive powered and it returns back to zero as soon as you let off with pressure..... I adjusted balance pot and have Z lag nice and steady...... Aux is all the way CCW ...... Signal is 10 turns CW ...... Tach is 5 turns CW ....... Comp is 10 turns CW ...... CL is about 8 turns CW..... and Balance is about 10 turns CW ......
Leaving CL and BAL alone.... if i turn SIG .....COMP.... or TACH ..... much in either direction (individually) I will either trip the drive with no motor movement OR turning TACH or SIGNAL too far CCW will bring back -Z jog with no signal input.....
SO..... motor is holding Z but not jogging when I call for it....but it will move all by itself if I turn "down" the tach or sig.... right now everything but the CL and BAL are at factory manual settings....
What do i do next....??? I REALLY dont want to try and turn the Y pots to try and duplicate those settings....I would rather just try and get this "new" Z card tuned in.... any thoughts on what to trim next ?? These pots are much more sensitive than I thought they would be....
 
When trouble shooting any "system" always try the simplest things first.
(I'd check and clean ALL connections FIRST)

Could be (not in any order of probability)
Dirty edge connector
Bad Z encoder
Bad tach
Broken, disconnected wire
No analog signal out of the control

And don't mess with the X or Y drive pots!
 








 
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