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Thread: TRIM coolants
09-27-2010, 12:18 PM #1
I have been running Hangies for a while now. I started off with the S500. I loved the stuff except for the brown stains in the insides of the machines that are nearly impossible to get off. Of course the Hangies rep said he had never heard of that problem before. Yeah right! There have been quite a few guys here on PM that have had the same problems with the staining. Now I'm running Hangies S787 for roughly a year. It's a semi-synthetic and it works great on every type of material. Sump life is a long long time too. But I'm having a proplem with residue with this stuff too. Not the brown concrete crap that WILL NOT come off, but a greasy yellow film that coats everything it touches. Hangies rep tells me I'm mixing wrong. BS. Next tells me I'm not skimming. BS. Tells me I'm not keeping the concentration right. BS. I've had it with Hangies and looking to move on to something that won't leave my machines looking like dark caves inside.
I want to go back to a soluable oil. Anyone here have some input on TRIM coolants? TRIM SOL? TRIM E206? I need something for a wide range of materials, good sump life, and won't leave crud on the insides of my machines. Any other suggestions? TIA
09-27-2010, 12:37 PM #2
I went through the same exact thing you described. Switched from Hangsterfers S500 to Qualichem Xtremcut 251. The stuff worked good, but at nearly $190.00 for a 5 gallon pail delivered it was costly, and too boot the concentration was continually dropping in the machine requiring a more concentrated charge to be added to the point of it costing me (I did the math one day) $19.00 per 5 gallons added!!!
I just switched once again.
Pixman came out on a Saturday with some cleaner and 5 gallons of ValCool VP Tech. We cleaned out the entire machine.....(what a F'ing mess from the Hangsterfers) with the cleaner he brought, and added in the ValCool. It's a semi-synthetic, blue in color, smells really good and so far after a week I have had no issues with milling, reaming, or form tapping.....not a problem.....and no skin problems either. Best of all, it lists for only $116 (not including shipping) for 5 gallons so I am saving a bunch of money as well. We run mostly aluminum so I can't speak much for results in anything else, but I am VERY happy with the product.
09-27-2010, 12:37 PM #3
Trim Microsol 685. We stainless, hi-temp alloys and steel in very equal proportions. Tool life is better that the Hangsterfers we once ran. Sump life is great and the insife of the machines have never been cleaner.
09-27-2010, 01:00 PM #4
I remember you talking about the brown slugde from the S500. How do you get that crap off? I tried Hangies' machine cleaner on it. I had to scrub like hell to get it off and finally gave up. Plane water and a light scotchbrite pad worked just as good as the cleaner. I'm hoping by running a different coolant that over time the rest of that brown crap will slowy come off. I have some pretty nice late model machines and it sickens me to look inside them and see the mess that is left from the Hangies.
09-27-2010, 01:23 PM #5
I've seen your shop photo's David, and I would be sick as well. Those are nice machines!
My machine is a 1992, but it's in mint condition inside and out, and I was and still am enraged over the mess inside.
We used some ValCool cleaner, and just like you, had to scrub with ScotchBrite as well, but it still didn't get everything clean like it used to be. One side inside the machine looks great, but the other side is not as good. We both literally ran out of strength, and I finally said....close enough!!
According to Ken, (Pixman) the coolant really won't clean off the built up sludge, it will be more a process of the chips beating the sludge off like when you're face milling and the chips are totally pelting the walls in the machine.
You know the funny thing is......I only got the brown sludge in my VMC, never in the lathe.......go figure!
09-27-2010, 01:59 PM #6
I bought a used machine that had the brown varnish from hell. After trying many soaps/solvents etc., I finally tried a consumer grade steam cleaner- worked like magic on the sludge. It was slow going in some places because of the relative small size of the steam cleaner, but much faster than anything else I tried, required very little elbow work, and did not scratch the paint (as scotch-brite can).
The steam cleaner was called the 'Shark.'
I've been using Trim Sol for about 5 years, great sump life, no buildup on the machines, very easy to wipe away, no paint damage.
09-27-2010, 02:01 PM #7
I have ran Trim Sol for <20 yrs. I have had no reason to switch IMO. I am sure there is something better out there. There always is. Master Chemical has later and greater products as well. Not sure how long they will continue with Sol specifically. ???
Sol lasts really good in alum machines!
But if you have steel chips laying below the coolant level - it will eventually go bad.
The only CNC machines that I have actually cleaned out - just to replace the coolant is two mills that had sat for many months with 1 yr old coolant. My lathes run enough hrs to never really go bad....
IMO it is some $alty stuff, but when you guys start comparing prices - I
But then I buy by the drum @ around $800 I think. (aint that enough!?)
It will be a hard sell to git me to go back to anything with the name "synthetic" in the name or on the spec sheet. Once bit. twiced shy!
Think Snow Eh!
09-27-2010, 02:44 PM #8
Trim SOL has been good for me. Running your average steels and 304/316 SS.
09-27-2010, 03:11 PM #9
We used Trim sol for years and like it. Then we needed something better for heavier use in the CNCs. The better Trim products had unpleasant smells and gave one of my guys nosebleeds. We tried a few others and then found Zurn Aquasol DX1000. We are in love! Super productive, super long sump life, no smell.
Industrial Lubricants | Metalworking Fluids | ZurnOil - O.F. Zurn Company
09-27-2010, 03:33 PM #10
When posting about what coolant you're using or having trouble with, it's important state the complete type, not just the brand.
Hangsterfers S-500, Trim C-305, ValCool VP Tech, etc.
Some are soluble oils, some are semi-synthetics, some are pure synthetics, some are pure oils. It helps to know also what concentration level, PH reading, refractometer correction factor and other factors are in play.
I believe there's a lot of misuse of coolant out there because of people not mixing correct concentration or method (remember O-I-L : Oil In Last) and not-so-much that any one coolant is globally junk.
Except maybe Rustlick.
The left is done (by yours truly), the right hadn't been started. Crappy cell phone pic:
09-27-2010, 03:52 PM #11
I have been using TrimSol for about a year and a half and am pretty happy with it. All aluminum here.
The best place I have found to buy it is Enco. Ok, no beating me up, I only buy Chemicals from them. They have it for $98 a 5 gallon pail. I get 15% discounts by email at least monthly and they always have discount codes for free shipping if you look around a little. The free shipping is where you really save. Just Google Enco Free Shipping and there are almost always links to the free shipping codes.
That gets it to my door for $84. I order a few pails every couple months when they have the discounts.
Not much of an endorsement, but I thought I would try to help people save a few bucks if they use it.
09-27-2010, 04:02 PM #12
I don't know how O-I-L approved my method is, but here - we pour the oil right into the stream of water as it fills the bucket.
Werks for me...
At one point - and maybe aggin one day - we usta mix 100 (?) gal at a time in an old sprayer tank. I would prolly fill 2/3 the volume of water, pour the oil, and then top off. Never had any troble with that either.
No idea what issues you guys are having?
THAT'S the "brown streaks" you gus are getting! ???
Looks like it's got some serious extreem pressure addative in it to me. ???
Think Snow Eh!
09-28-2010, 04:41 PM #13
I've been using Trim Micosol 585 for a couple years. The machines are clean like new, the residue is soft and wipes easy, no skin problems and it smells like cake batter. Some foaming issues on one particular machine, but not on 5 others. I use it in a lathe and in mills. It is designed for cast iron and titanium I believe, but I've been using it a lot in production machining of plastic. It washes off the parts with a quick dip in a bucket and it is clean. O-I-L is important, as is skimming. I keep the brix reading around 5. Never under 3. I don't do any tapping, forming, broaching with it, so I don't know how it handles pressure. Sump life is excellent.