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Tumbling Aluminum in Ceramic - How to eliminate residue?

cosmos_275

Hot Rolled
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Jun 9, 2015
I'm using ceramic triangles to deburr Aluminum parts. A couple hours does a nice job then I put them in walnut shells for polish.

The issue I have is with the ceramic creating black grime. After 2 hours it's not too bad to clean off, but I left them in for 5 hours today and cleaning these off is going to suck.

Does anyone deburr Aluminum parts in ceramic media and if so, can you tell me what if anything I can add to keep this black stuff from sticking to the parts. The cermaic triangles seems pretty clean. I had some pine sol in there today and was clearly not helping.

GRIME.jpg

Thanks
 
I'm using ceramic triangles to deburr Aluminum parts. A couple hours does a nice job then I put them in walnut shells for polish.

The issue I have is with the ceramic creating black grime. After 2 hours it's not too bad to clean off, but I left them in for 5 hours today and cleaning these off is going to suck.

Does anyone deburr Aluminum parts in ceramic media and if so, can you tell me what if anything I can add to keep this black stuff from sticking to the parts. The cermaic triangles seems pretty clean. I had some pine sol in there today and was clearly not helping.

View attachment 219653

Thanks
I have never tumbled aluminum in ceramics but i have worked with metallic scurries in ceramic ball mills. What concerns me is if you don't get the aluminum shavings out of your ceramic media over an extended period of time you will build up powdered aluminum from crushing all the burs. If you have any oil or coolant in your tumbler it will get the powdered aluminum to stick to various things and make a big mess.

I would recommend cleaning your jar and media (the triangles)and see if the black stuff goes away
 
I had some pine sol in there today and was clearly not helping.


Thanks

That right there is the primary reason for the discoloration ( along with the prolonged exposure of 5 hrs ), not the ceramic media.
You can prove me wrong by taking a nice piece of AL and simply immerse it in a Pine Sol ( or most other parts washer or degreaser ) mixture for a few hours.
I bet you will see the same spots on it, and not only on bare AL, but even on clear anodized ones.

So, instead of Pine Sol as a lubricating/detergent liquid, use plane-jane Palmolive dishwashing soap.
When the tumbling is done, take the parts out and immediately put them in a bucket of water ( hot is better, but cold will do )

You can purchase Aluminum specific tumbling solution, but trust me, Palmolive is far far cheaper and it DOES THE SAME THING!!!
 
I've probably never tumbled anything correctly in my life, but I always drained the liquid
out the bottom and refilled with fresh water and Dawn, tumble a bit, drain and refill until
the parts are clean... And its usually just some grey mud, I've never seen black like that.

What you have there doesn't look like schmootz, it looks like corrosion. 7075 and 2024
will do that to me sometimes if I let them sit overnight with coolant on them, but not
THAT BAD.

Any why Pine-Sol??
 
Palmolive is far far cheaper and it DOES THE SAME THING!!!

I've banned Palmolive from the shop.. Might work for tumbling, but it SUCKS for degreasing,
good on your hands and all, cuz its full of oils, and if you have to lay down a coating,
you're screwed... Besides that, it smells like old people.

Dawn and 409.. 409 for the heavy grease or spray on coatings.. Dawn when its just coolant..
Also I've found when alodining, 409 will make the alodine splotchy, Dawn leaves it nice and uniform..
I've found 409 works better for pre-coating degreasing than Naptha or Acetone, I don't care
what the spec says.
 
Bob

I am not using it for degreasing, have some really potent shit for that.
Palmolive is the primary tumbling solution for AL, and it is also the final rinse soap after any and all degreaser.

I'm old enough to not care about the smell, sure is nice on the hands tho.
 
what you need is a de-smutter. We used to use sulfuric acid.

Hmm, I might try some less toxic stuff first. I had been using liquid dish detergent but ran out. Pine sol was all I had in the shop, so why not. I usually have it on a timer, but not hooked, up, so 5 hours was an accident. It's definitely not corrosion, it's grime (best word I can think of). I had been getting it before, just not this much. It washes off, 2 hours worth not bad, but 5 hours worth will take a while. I'm letting them soak overnight in soapy water, maybe that will help loosen it up. I'm not sure what did more, the new "soap" or the extra time.

Thanks for all the replies. I will try the suggestions. I usually wash the rocks ever couple go arounds.
 
That is some really weird looking build-up. I use ceramic on aluminum and have some parts I tumble ~12 hours and all they get is a dull gray color with no build up. I do a quick caustic etch to brighten those up.

Is you water particularly hard or soft? Have you ever tested the PH? Might be worth looking at. I have well water and run it through a water softener for use in the tumbler. I used to use it straight from the well and there was more of a smut on the parts then, but nothing like yours are showing.
 
Plastic media works best. But when I use ceramic on Ali, I add a bit of purple degreaser to the mix. (You know the stuff that will eat the hide off your hands) I never run my Ali/ceramic combo for more than an hour or so. Usually 30-40 mins will round the edges and blend the surfaces. Rinse in clean water and dry.
 
That looks like corrosion, I've got the black grime from tumbling and it looks nothing like that.
 
I do it a lot in a C&M tumbler and just use water, I have them setup with a timer and run for a hour and clean clean out the bucket with a second pump ( sump pump from home depot ) and then refull .. over time the stones well get built up with alum and ever couple of weeks I run steel parts or plug the drain on the tumbler and run a couple of cups or black sand blasting media mixed with a little water to clean the ceramic media and then flush all the sand out and go back to running more alum parts ,,, I have the soft green plastic media but it does not last vary long and foams up a lot.. I have tried the soap trick but it takes twice as long to get the parts done and is not needed as long as you clean out and change water ever hour. most parts go out for anodizing and they look the same with ceramic or plastic media.
 
That is some really weird looking build-up. I use ceramic on aluminum and have some parts I tumble ~12 hours and all they get is a dull gray color with no build up. I do a quick caustic etch to brighten those up.

Is you water particularly hard or soft? Have you ever tested the PH? Might be worth looking at. I have well water and run it through a water softener for use in the tumbler. I used to use it straight from the well and there was more of a smut on the parts then, but nothing like yours are showing.

The coolant guy tested it, I think it was fairly hard. I got some palmolive which I will try today. Thanks all
 
Does your tumbler have a drain or are you leaving your solution in the whole time? We use a small pump to recirculate the solution from a large tub below the drain.
 
We use light weight ceramic media on aluminum also. We have some stones set aside for use with kerosene for tumbling steel are stainless parts than need very aggressive deburring. If an employee mixes stones that are filled with kerosene and puts detergent and water in them we get a mucky mess. I think the oil in your Pinesol is the culprit.
You can run the stones for a couple of hours with whatever detergent you use going forward with no parts till you get you stones degreased, change you detergent frequently till you get them flushed. If you do have hard water a splash of household vinegar can bring your water back to a more neutral PH.
 
First you realize they make tumbler soap right?
Second I used 'Global Aluminum Cleaner' from MSC for years, but the price got high and it was not perfect, so I went back to the tumbler soap from my tumbler supply place[fortune metal finishing]

My issue[plastic media, aluminum] is white residue in the nooks and crannies. Takes moderately careful process to keep it away, wet and moderately soapy, allow to drain thru while tumbling, never let it get dry, rinse immediately upon removal, then wash parts
 
Years ago I tried to tumble parts with a little fresh coolant in the mix. I figured it lubes and it would keep the parts from rusting the moment they where removed from the tumbler. Boy what a mistake. It caused a greasy, sticky schmoo to adhere to the parts. I had to hand scrub each part to get it off. I think you are basically having the same issue. The oils in the soap are creating a sludge with the "shavings" and turning into a sticky paste.

I have a Burr King bowl tumbler. I don't circulate in that one. If I run Ali, stainless, or steel in it, I rinse the media thoroughly before each batch of parts. I add my parts and about a 1/4 cup of that purple cleaner I mentioned. The degreaser removes all the oils, keeps the mix wet, and doesn't foam. I can run steel parts in it for 5-6-10 hrs with no problems. Parts rinse nice and clean every time. I make sure I slip on some rubber gloves when I dig the parts out of the tumbler. That cleaner will eat your hide off with too much exposure.

In my larger Mr Deburr tumbler, I have a 7 gallon pail with a circulating pump. I only use H2O when I tumble Ali. I get 2-3 batches before the water needs to be changed. The parts always come out nice and clean with a quick rinse in fresh water.
 
I'd suggest using the proper soap also. I get the stuff from C&M Topline. Pull the parts out of the tumbler, into a bucket of reasonably clean water. Wiggle them in the water to help rinse, them blow off.
I used ceramic for a little while on aluminum. I now use plastic. Different stone shapes and grade of ceramic will make a difference, but I'd suggest using plastic. People think some of our stuff is injection molded plastic after anodize.
To me, reducing the secondary time,and also not having to worry about the time in tumbler, made it worth changing media. YMMV...
 
almost 2 hours in and the next batch is looking super clean!! I washed the rocks and added a healthy shot of palmolive. I was thinking to try Bon Ami, but this is looking good so I think I'll skip that experiment. Yeah, it's like a nasty black paste. Soaking overnight helped loosen it up.

I did not know about actual tumbler soaps. I read as many threads on the forum as I could find on the subject but don't remember that. At $50/gal, I'll need to hear some stellar reviews considering there are cheap grocery store alternatives. I've been misting on my lathe with canola oil for some time... cheap! Thanks for the help
 








 
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